article in The Independant

[Poly Hive]

I may be mistaken here but they say:

"Most tomato crops, and indoor strawberries and soft fruit crops are pollinated using bumblebees as a result of the significant impact on yield and fruit set. "

Now last I read was that honey bees are pretty useless in glasshouses.

If I were a glass house person I would be wanting my crop pollinated by the most effective means. If it was a choice between paying a pollination fee to (in this instance not effective) honey bees or paying for effective bumbles then the choice is pretty simple?

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Silicosis (coal mining), asbestos, Nuclear radiation (bomb tests), thalidomide, tobacco, CJD, HIV (haemophyliacs), organo-phosphates, dioxins (rogue incineration of chlorinated hydrocarbons - and others) to name just a few that affected the human population.

If it is only the rest of the animal kingdom that is suffering, what chance of immediate action being taken to stop it - or reimburse the damage - what!? reparations? Not a chance.

The chemists of doom will blame the government departments of inactivity - just like the last foot and mouth outbreak where the infection escaped from neither the government bit nor the private company bit. But it escaped, or was liberated, by one or the other.

The eventual stink will die down as people move on. I remember Flixborough - where a refinery was built within or immediately adjacent to houses (or the other way round). No problem until the refinery exploded. Anyone remember the Abervan disaster where the slag heaps engulfed the houses below after a heavy rain?

Sadly, these happenings are forgotten, buried deeply in a history book. Those responsible are rarely brought to book.

So our bees have zilch chance of any compensation!!!

RAB

 

[MJBee]

You are being slightly disingenuous there Bros, The Bumbles are provided for pollination in Greenhouses/polytunnels, not accessible to honey bees.

However I would be delighted to see the back of Neonics and their manufacturers. I may be wrong but is the tide of Joe Public opinion turning against them? - at last?

 

[Brosville]

My dad managed to run the family nursery, which had a lot of glass, and grew one heck of a lot of tomatoes over 50 years ago without one Syngenta bumble - and had no "setting" problems whatsoever.(It's proper husbandry, and knowing your subject)
I think a point is being missed here, I suspect deliberately - although it isn't "entirely natural", I have nothing against use of bumbles such as those flogged by Syngenta, but was trying to point out the irony of a company that sells chemicals known to kill honeybees, that also sells a substitute pollinator known to be less affected by "icides"

 

[Rosti]

Not to be paranoid, but I am sure that Pesticide companies will read these forums.

of course they will! username: NeoNicholas666, doesn't contribute much though good at listening! another quiet listening forum member is probably FeraLBee123 (list themselves as being in Sand Hutton near York and has 100+ hives of mixed types) has his hives on his brothers land also on here CSLBee - no reason for them not to hear our views though, or indeed participate in such debates!

 

[madasafish]

With the BBKA supporting them via a few members, the pesticide companies need have no worries..

 

[Brosville]

just in case they are watching - How's it going Jules? Feeding the weasels for your next press release?, or are you planning a junket for a bunch of your Olly Gark mates following their great victory in announcing their association's complete faith in the executive.........?

 

[RoofTops]

At the risk of going completely off track (perish the thought) tomatoes do not need insects for pollination although the original wild tomato was pollinated by a solitary bee - but not in the way you might think. Apparently it is sometimes called "buzz pollination" and it was the vibration from the insect which did the trick. You can get the same effect if growing tomatoes up a bit of string by twanging the string.

I understand bumblebees are used for pollination of strawberries in glass houses in order to get a more even crop and especially a crop early in the year when any self-respecting bee would be tucked up in bed. Insects are needed for strawberries but not tomatoes.

 

[drstitson]

anyone know if they use neonics on glasshouse crops?

of course we'll never know the long term effects on the bumblies as they have to be destroyed after pollination duties!

 

[BobH1]

I do hope that 'government sources' aren't reading this thread Norton! not if you keep feeding them money making ventures that is!

It will go like this .....

1. Government fails to manage pesticide licensing and revocation effectively.
2. Bee health and numbers suffer as a result
3. Government concern that impact on bee (and natural pollinator) pollinated crops will hit food chain
4. Government recognises that small weak band of private individuals keep bees
5. These bees can be used to monitor wider polliinator 'health and viability'
6. We are committed to bees! 'Pollination important to the country' statement from government (said in a Churchillian way)
7. Government forces compulsory registration of all beekeepers (actually not such a bad thing in my opinion - formalise beebase registration)
8. Government then imposes a £50 / year registration and inspection fee
9. Profits from registration 'used to research health issues in bees' - (government then removes the money they had committed and replaces it with ours)
10. 'Our' money is given to Pesticidie companies to aid research into bee health
11. This completely unbiased research tells us pesticides are not to blame - it is a complete eye-opener that no one in government saw coming, a change of approach is needed!
12. Based on this government decides beekeepers are bad at keeping bees and so need more inspections (sorry I mean consultative support) - because it cant be a chemical environmental impact that is the cause of all this - our money has just proved that :-0
13. Inspections now 2 a year at £100
14. Beekeepers stop keeping bees

I reckon we are at point 6 currently.

I agree, with "voluntary" registration of apiaries already in place, I can see point 7 arriving within a very short time.

 

[Storm™]

I judge an issue I know not much about - and have neither the time nor inclination to read millions of words about by the simple adage..
"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and flies like a duck.. it's a duck".


On that basis, the defenders of Bayer are either naive or deliberately ignoring what is in front of them...

NUFF SAID - corporations spread bull, like bulls, until stopped.

Erin Brockovich - http://www.brockovich.com/
Karen Silkwood - http://tinyurl.com/6emj2lc

NUFF SAID FOR GOD SAKE.

In the words of Hedgerow Pete - sometimes its time to get doing.

 

[victor meldrew]

My dad managed to run the family nursery, which had a lot of glass, and grew one heck of a lot of tomatoes over 50 years ago without one Syngenta bumble - and had no "setting" problems whatsoever.(It's proper husbandry, and knowing your subject)
I think a point is being missed here, I suspect deliberately - although it isn't "entirely natural", I have nothing against use of bumbles such as those flogged by Syngenta, but was trying to point out the irony of a company that sells chemicals known to kill honeybees, that also sells a substitute pollinator known to be less affected by "icides"

He probably sprayed the flowering tommies with "Fullset"

 

[drstitson]

old fashioned glass house production allowed access to pollinators.

monstrosities like Thanet Earth are huge sealed ecosystems that need assistance from boxed bees.

 

[tonybloke]

glasshouse tomatoes used to be pollinated by ladies, with a cylindrical machine, which had an off-set weight on a battery-powered motor. this 'vibrator' was touched on each supporting cane or wire, the flowers shook, and as they are self pollinating, good success was had.
because humans cost more to employ then bumble bees, the call for the ladies and their machines declined in glass-house tomato production.

luckily, the manufacturers of the machines found an alternative market (still involving mostly ladies!)

 

[Poly Hive]

I didn't miss the point at all, I do not approve of what the chem companies do, and have in fact been aware of organic techniques for over forty years, not to mention Bio dynamics.

However I raised the point to make the point that sometimes facts are victims of accuracy in the haste to point the finger.

PH

 

[Brosville]

on this "points 6&7" thing, I can't agree that it's a "good thing" at all - just another way for Big Pestco to gain access to a captive "market" - as I've said in earlier threads, only a small step from compulsory registration to compulsory treatment (especially if the BBKA and it's bedfellows got to administer it!)

 

[Norton]

I happen to KNOW how Bayer pulls the wool over everybody's eyes with these Neonic chemicals - they are really sinister in getting the test results that suit them.

I discovered years ago that the use of Checkmite (coumaphos) was producing intercaste queens when treated colonies were used for queen cell raising. This was publish at the time in the BKQ - Bayer kept very quiet about it all and John Phipps said at the time that the silence was deafening. Personally it probably cost me about 20,000 GBP in lost production.

 

[Norton]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0Mrm9Y6khk[/ame]

 

[victor meldrew]

glasshouse tomatoes used to be pollinated by ladies, with a cylindrical machine, which had an off-set weight on a battery-powered motor. this 'vibrator' was touched on each supporting cane or wire, the flowers shook, and as they are self pollinating, good success was had.
because humans cost more to employ then bumble bees, the call for the ladies and their machines declined in glass-house tomato production.

luckily, the manufacturers of the machines found an alternative market (still involving mostly ladies!)

Watch it!!! The adult section is closed !!!

John W

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Thanks for the info Tony - always a mine of useful information.
Tony should know of course as he speaks from experience; He WAS one of those ladies!