Are all associations affiliated to BBKA?

[Brosville]

-my apologies- I destroyed all my cookies and tried again, and sure enough there's one closed thread- I'll certainly mention it to the powers that be!
(which is still very different to a certain other forum where 95% is barred, rather than around 5%....)
As for "fluffy", I don't do "fluffy", but I do have the most enormous respect for nature, and try to treat the creatures in it with respect - "orthodoxy" told me that chickens should be kept three in a cage the size of a shopping basket, be fed on chemicalised rubbish that was full of broad-spectrum antibiotics and "DPM" - (dried poultry manure), never allowed to see daylight, and ventilation to be limited in cold weather so as not to affect feed conversion ratios - I found that "orthodoxy" to be sickening, inherently wrong, and I stuck two fingers in the air at it, and went "free range" - I'm looking to go a similar route keeping bees - if that's "fluffy" so be it.........

 

[David P]

Very quick question then Brosville, where in the free range bee keeping you intend does varroa control fit in, if indeed it does.
Just as relevant what about swarm control or will you just allow swarms to leave because its natural.

These questions are not intended to be a dig , merely an attempt to define the boundaries of what and what isnt considered natural.


David

 

[Poly Hive]

Brosville?

Your analogy about chickens is to be straight with you just rubbish.

I over the years have lived on and worked on many farms and never bar one have I seen chickens kept the way you describe. The one exception was a poultry farm.

Every other farm that had chickens had them free range as indeed I did myself when I kept a few.

British agriculture started using chemicals to feed the ever (and continuing to grow) population in the 1850's when most bees were in skeps. Those chemicals were natural occurring minerals which improved the soil.

This is not to be confused with pesticide usage with which I myself have many doubts.

If farming went back to horse power the country would starve.

Facts are awkward things that winna ding. Aberdeenshire proverb.

PH

 

[Brosville]

Varroa control - hopefully dusting with icing sugar will suffice - certainly I intend to keep a close eye on mite burden, if all goes well icing sugar (which is of course, hopelessly un-natural) will do the job.
As for "swarm control", it's a perfectly normal part of bee behaviour to swarm, I'll look to practice "artificial swarming" to try to avoid losing them, but if some go off to live wild, or find a home with another beekeeper, so be it! I'm not in this as a commercial operation- if I can keep some healthy bees, I'll consider I've succeeded - some honey would be nice, but is not the primary object of the exercise...
I'm also extremely fortunate, when I refer to neighbours, I'm talking the closest being around 400 yards from where the bees will be kept, so I'm not too worried about being "antisocial"
I find use of the word "natural" utterly fraught with dangers - if I use it as shorthand for the way I kept chooks (free range, and without chemicals), it would appear to conjure up in people's minds some strange anal retentive who lives a fundamentalist life macrameing his own sandals out of yoghourt......
I assure you that I'm not - I have found that animals, if treated with respect, and homed and fed properly, usually stay naturally healthy - I am also comfortable keeping them that way. I've also found gross abuse of the word "natural" (again from chook-keeping days). To me the word means "of or from nature" - according to the feed reps, they can quite legally describe synthetically synthesised colourants as added to poultry feed to give orange yolks as "natural" colours if they are clones of naturally-occurring colourants......." So "natural" means pretty much what you want it to............

 

[Brosville]

Here's a very good article that succinctly explains things - http://tinyurl.com/bzf38l
-it is not a question of "returning" to anything, the article talks of permaculture, which is essentially "no dig", and is a very effective way of working with nature in a totally sustainable way - it is also a way of doubling production per acre.....
Don't believe the scare stories punted by the agrochemical/gm proponents - the raw material (oil) for their way of doing things is rapidly running out, we have to find other ways..........

 

[Poly Hive]

I disagree that oil is "rapidly" running out.

The way that existing reservoirs are managed and drilled is amazing.

However we need to get a move on with alternates and bloody wind turbines are not the way forward.

PH

 

[Brosville]

I'll be VERY brief -first we cut consumption by cutting out unnecessary use of energy -flying, commuting etc, insulate our homes to within an inch of their lives, and THEN look to provide a much lower amount of energy.......Living as we do in the UK, which has one of the best wind resources in Europe we would be barking bats NOT to generate a large proportion of our needs from wind - along with other renewables - biomass, photovoltaics etc. I deliberately left out nuclear - it is too little, too late (even it's proponents agree that it can only ever provide a tiny proportion of our needs for very few years), and no government can be trusted to do it safely........
As for oil "not running out", you are obviously getting different data to mine - we are at or past "peak oil", we've already had a taste of what oil price rises are like - it's only collapsing economies that have pushed the price back down - as I've said, it's not a question of renewable power, or sustainable farming, just a matter of when...........
I personally can't understand the animosity towards turbines - they are very cost-effective, I think they look great (why are they so different from windmills?), and "do the job" - where's the problem? (and please, in a country disfigured by pylons, please don't plead aesthetics)

 

[Hombre]

Hi Brosville,
I didn't fully appreciate what an active pre-bee existence you had. If I was one of your bees, I would certainly have to think about toeing the line. I'm sure that I join others in looking forward to the documentation of your actual exploits over the next year or so. Not quite so keen to live too close with the prospect of icing-sugar laden swarms arriving on spec to seek asylum amongst my own apiaries.

Jenxy, if you have a store loyalty card of any shape or form, you have already sold a lot more detail to commerce for a pitance in return, so signing up to access the BBKA forum is no great deal. If you were a member of an organisation funding the provisioning of hardware, upkeep and bandwidth, don't you feel that you might actually have a duty to your members to insist that all users, not just posters, should be obliged to record their interest. It is after all the cost of entrance. It would be unreasonable if everyone with a bee suit passing within a mile of your hives were to consider taking a taste of your honey a god given right. Perhaps this isn't a good parallel, but it is a limited view. He/she who funds a facility gets to make the rules. Without being prepared to join in, how reasonable is it that you should influence the rules, directly or indirectly?

A good discussion though folks, covering the spectrum of opinion as it does.

 

[Jenxy]

Hi Hombre.... I haven't said I don't want to join an association.. quite the opposite, I do, and that is why the original question was posted on this thread. All I have said is that It would be hypocritical of me to pay subs knowing that part of that cash was going to fund an organization that practiced actions I do not agree with. I am not fussed about the insurance, I don't believe it is a pre-requisite to keeping bees, ( but as I am new to this and know b***er all please correct me if I am wrong) my only desire to be involved at all would be linked to learning more from others.
I do not suppose for a moment that someone as wet behind the ears as myself, has any ability at all to change the way things are run, lets face it, if the replies on here are anything to go by, it seems that even if you are a fully paid up member, with decades of experience, you are unable to change things, so why would a novice like me even try.
If there was an Independent Beekeeping Association, I would join in a flash.
I didn't intend to start a huge political debate when starting this thread, I merely asked if there was an association in my area that catered for conscientious objectors such as myself.

 

[Poly Hive]

Jenxy threads tend to wonder off all the time.

I worked in the oil business for 28 years so have some back ground info. I also am trained in farming, and so have some back ground there too.

Plus I am qualified in beekeeping so .......... I comment.

PH

 

[David P]

I think they look great (why are they so different from windmills?), and "do the job" - where's the problem?

So keep em in Amsterdam where they belong.

Regarding recent oil price rises, that has nothing at all to do with how much oil there is and everything to do with how far the middle east oil cartel will open the tap.

First we cut consumption by cutting out unnecessary use of energy -flying, commuting etc,

A nice idea maybe , but realistic ? Not really

All I have said is that It would be hypocritical of me to pay subs knowing that part of that cash was going to fund an organization that practiced actions I do not agree with

.

Again in an ideal world, but unless you were an ardent Gordon Brown supporter it would mean not paying taxes.

Going back to the original question Oh so long ago, If i were you i would swallow my pride and put principles in your back pocket for now and join your local association. You should find a lot to learn and a lot to enjoy and dont forget that a third of associations voted against the dam stuff and those that didnt were directed on the most part from a desire to avoid the threatened rise in capitation fees.


David

 

[Jenxy]

Sensible point David, I think for the sake of myself and the health and safety of my future wards, I will inevitably have to seek advice and help in some form so I will probably join an association.... just would have preferred it to be independent.

 

[Brosville]

Sorry about windmilling the thread off course.......beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I grew up close to the South Downs, and walked and rode all over them in my youth - love 'em to pieces - I can just see a bit of them in the distance.... I could think of nothing nicer, or more sensible than to see them graced with a crop of windflowers - elegant, graceful windmills producing virtually pollution-free energy - what a sensible idea...... We live with pylons (which are dreadful eyesores) all over the countryside, and shrug our shoulders as "it's the price we pay for electricity" - there are "Windmill preservation societies" all over the place who preserve and show off the older wheat grinding ones.......Why on earth are modern wind turbines greeted with so much revulsion? (especially when you consider the alternatives to them!)
I really just can't understand why

 

[Hombre]

I wasn't trying to be critical jenxy, sorry if I seemed off-hand, just my manner showing a lack of polish. Nothing wrong with world domination in my book, just don't exclude any information sources in a desire to be an idealist. I'm sure that you know a lot more now about bees than you did two months ago, so I'm sure that with a mentor you will have a good season.

Don't be shy, introduce the neighbours to beekeeping too - gently - and look for one or more out-apiary opportunities to hedge against the hopefully remote possibility of having to move the hive out of the garden or to accommodate the natural desire to increase the number of colonies you own. A friend of mine has a large patch of poached-egg plants under his front window and explains that each year they are thick with bees doing their bit. he doesn't know where they come from and they don't bother him as he comes and goes from his front door right next to where they are foraging.

PH and Brosville, After Peak Oil, will we be forming national pylon preservation societies as well as well as for windmills to reminisce our long lost technologies? Will we be be taking the horse and cart to the wind farm to lubricate the windmills with animal fat or will they have long since perished too. I'm hoping for a long shallow glide in the hope of succession technologies softening the blow.

 

[Jenxy]

No worries Hombre.... I am pretty thick skinned and wouldn't have been offended at all.
As it goes, I will probably join a BKA just for the support and knowledge.... mmmm but which one??