Apivar in January

[nettle]

In July/ August last year I treated my two hives with ApiLife Var. I'm keen to avoid using harsh pesticides, so I chose that over Apivar.

My mentor (and supplier of my bees) was asking me how the mite situation's looking over the winter. I had my floor inserts in for around 3 weeks in Nov/ Dec, and I only counted a drop of around 15-20 in that time (I know that doesn't tell me anything, but it's all the estimate I had). He says he usually does an additional Apivar treatment towards the end of January, and recommended I do the same just to be on the safe side. He doesn't use oxalic acid as he feels it's too harsh on the bees.

I have a super of stores above each brood box. If I was to use the Apivar, I'm wondering:

1 - Should I put the strips in the brood box rather than the super? I haven't looked in, but I'd expect the clusters to move up into the supers as the stores run out.

2- Will I be able to use the super frames for honey in the future after they've been in proximity to the strips?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

He doesn't use oxalic acid as he feels it's too harsh on the bees.

Doesn't know that much about bees or OA then does he? if he prefers to liberally plaster them with an insecticide.

 

[Erichalfbee]

1. The strips go where the bees are.
2. No
I wouldn’t be doing anything at the end of January at all.
Wait till spring then see what the infestation is
Oxalic is not harsh on the bees and us very effective without putting Amitraz in the colony

 

[nettle]

Doesn't know that much about bees or OA then does he? if he prefers to liberally plaster them with an insecticide.

He's kept bees for 30+ years and was a founding member of his local beekeeping group. His dislike of OA comes from witnessing a load of bees (including the queen) abscond from a hive after being treated. It wasn't his hive or him that applied the treatment (so I guess they could have been overdosed?), but he's been wary of using OA since.

 

[Erichalfbee]

He's kept bees for 30+ years and was a founding member of his local beekeeping group. His dislike of OA comes from witnessing a load of bees (including the queen) abscond from a hive after being treated. It wasn't his hive or him that applied the treatment (so I guess they could have been overdosed?), but he's been wary of using OA since.

Time for an update in correct procedure then
I’m afraid the length of time you have been keeping bees for is sometimes not much of an indication of proficiency

 

[nettle]

Time for an update in correct procedure then
I’m afraid the length of time you have been keeping bees for is sometimes not much of an indication of proficiency

That's why I come on here. It's difficult as a new beekeeper to judge what the right advice is between my (lovely) mentor, who admittedly I think has some not quite up-to-date ways of doing things himself, and the many different views of unknown online beekeepers. Personally speaking I absolutely hate pesticides and actually prefer the thought of OA. I'd just feel so much worse if anything went wrong after going against his advice. Plus I've bought the flippin Apivar now...

If I did go with OA trickle treatment, am I still in time to do that? We've had some very mild spells, so I wouldn't count on them being brood-free. And (just to clarify) would the super frames be reusable this way?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

He's kept bees for 30+ years and was a founding member of his local beekeeping group

Why doesn't that surprise me
Or indeed impress me?

His dislike of OA comes from witnessing a load of bees (including the queen) abscond from a hive after being treated

sounds like a load of fantasy to me - what on earth were they doing? setting the hive alight?

 

[Sanntos]

No mentor is 100%, with 30+ years he is nearly perfect. They all come with imperfections, like some rigid opinions about treatments

 

[Boston Bees]

That's why I come on here. It's difficult as a new beekeeper to judge what the right advice is between my (lovely) mentor, who admittedly I think has some not quite up-to-date ways of doing things himself, and the many different views of unknown online beekeepers. Personally speaking I absolutely hate pesticides and actually prefer the thought of OA. I'd just feel so much worse if anything went wrong after going against his advice. Plus I've bought the flippin Apivar now...

If I did go with OA trickle treatment, am I still in time to do that? We've had some very mild spells, so I wouldn't count on them being brood-free. And (just to clarify) would the super frames be reusable this way?

Keep the Apivar and apply it in late August 2022, which is the optimum time for use. It's very effective stuff. If you really don't like pesticides, just don't buy any more after that (it's good to switch around treatments anyway).

PS: You might not like Apivar, but believe me, the varroa mites REALLY don't like it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If I did go with OA trickle treatment, am I still in time to do that? We've had some very mild spells, so I wouldn't count on them being brood-free. And (just to clarify) would the super frames be reusable this way?

You can re use super frames if you’ve trickled Oxalic. But I wouldn’t bother You will have brood in there by now. Check the load in spring.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now folks. Let’s go gently. This is the beginners section

 

[Parsonage Bees]

You sound in a very similar situation to me, nettle. Brood box and a super of stores.
I used ApiLife Var, ending mid September. Mite drop at end of September and October was increasing, worst colony 70v/day (btw, counting mite drop works imo, if you do enough of it). I don't like using synthetic chemicals either but added Apivar from beginning November to mid-December. Didn't like disturbing them in mid December and neither did they.
My usual plan is OAD in early December but had to do something. Normally apart from OAD I don't open my colonies between Halloween and the new tax year, early April.
I don't think ApiLife Var is a good enough varroa treatment. Doesn't kill enough mites. Used it before and same problem, had to treat again. So. . .
1/ put strips where the bees are. They'll probably still be in the brood box. The weight drop on mine show they haven't eaten much yet.
2/ I'd like to know this too. Somewhere I found that Amitraz breaks down within days? and thought, 'Oh that's fine'. But what does it break down to and are these chemicals persistent? So. Put strips in brood box, they can pass over them as they become active anyway.
Too late for OAD as there will be too much brood.
15-20v drop over 3 weeks is one varroa/day in early December. Negligible. Save the Apivar and let the bees alone until spring.
. . . . . Ben

 

[W0otz]

2/ I'd like to know this too. Somewhere I found that Amitraz breaks down within days? and thought, 'Oh that's fine'. But what does it break down to and are these chemicals persistent?

https://www.theapiarist.org/queens-and-amitraz-residues-in-wax/Whilst Amitraz itself isn't wax soluble, it degrades into chemicals that are. Buildup of miticides (and potentially other chemicals) in wax is the main reason I've gone foundationless and I'm planning to stick primarily to OA (or Formic acid) for mite control.

 

[Swn58]

You might not like Apivar, but believe me, the varroa mites REALLY don't like it.

It works for my bees, that's for sure!

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Yep, Apivar works. The instructions say not to expect a drop immediately after application but this was the inspection tray after 1 day.

 

[Sanntos]

That was not treatment, that was life support

 

[ericbeaumont]

My mentor

Good decision to question the advice given, not necessarily because it's right or wrong, but because following the practice of another would suggest that you'd rather copy than think for yourself.

It's fair to say that the standard of UK hobby beekeeping is pretty low and that length of service is no indicator of good or contemporary practice. With that in mind - and knowing that most beekeepers will give advice freely - you've made a wise choice to ask around and to make up your own mind.

It would have been more useful had your mentor stated his method, described the likely outcomes and alternatives and rang you a week later to find out what you had decided to do.