Api-bioxal Oxalic Treatment

[MuswellMetro]

ok, because i understand that the NBU have indicated at a meeting at FERA on friday that oxalic dihydrate treatment from November would be illegal unless you use the EU approved medicant Api-Bioxal i have had some Api-Bioxal specially flown in by courier from Italy ( ie my Daughter who was returning from Holiday)

So the 35g sachet of Api-Bioxal bought over the counter in a Pet Shop costs 12 euros (£8) and appears to be 88.6% oxalic Dihydrate made by manufacturer Liaf Batch noA151604 exp 30/6/2018

The italian instructions subject to my bad translating says a) dilute with 500ml of water and use at 5ml per occupied seam of bees or b)sublimate at 2.3g per hive for 3 minutes leave hive closed for 10 minute

Now as i read the instruction Api-blxoal therefore can be legally used for sublimation and therefore even though the NBU have severe reservation on the sublimation of Oxalic Dihydrate the NBU cannot stop me as the EU product is legal if sublimated

Does anyone who attended the FERA meeting have views on my stance on sublimation?

 

[Thymallus]

So the 35g sachet of Api-Bioxal costs 12 euros (£8) and appears to be 88.6% oxalic Dihydrate made by manufacturer Liaf Batch noA151604 exp 30/6/2018
/QUOTE]

You can buy 250g of Oxalic acid from fleabay (item no 260925118280) for £8.50 including postage.
Something stinks and I think I can see profits been made.

Next thought is why should they be so concerned about vaping if it achieves the intended aim of killing varroa. Unless they are waiting for the first beekeeper casualty and can then say "We warned you".
Lot of horse ship.

 

[MuswellMetro]

So the 35g sachet of Api-Bioxal costs 12 euros (£8) and appears to be 88.6% oxalic Dihydrate made by manufacturer Liaf Batch noA151604 exp 30/6/2018
/QUOTE]

You can buy 250g of Oxalic acid from fleabay (item no 260925118280) for £8.50 including postage.
Something stinks and I think I can see profits been made.

Next thought is why should they be so concerned about vaping if it achieves the intended aim of killing varroa. Unless they are waiting for the first beekeeper casualty and can then say "We warned you".
Lot of horse ship.

i could not agree more I have 1kg of it in the garage, but i like to get my head around the regulations, what I DO in my apiary stays in my apiary but what i am trying to glean is what the regs say i will be allowed to do

 

[Thymallus]

I have a suspicion that unless made law they can only be guidelines. Don't see hmg giving parliamentary time to prosecute beekeepers.

 

[Goran]

Damn, we on a Balkan are doomed, we don't have that mambo jumbo apibixi whatever. We just have plain oxalic dihydrate which cost nickle per hive.. Effective..

It is simmilar story I heard I think for flumetrin: one producer make one product which is really expensive, other produced with same active ingredient as same effective. That bigger one bought this one cheaper and shut it down.. And continue to sell his overrated product..
What a wonderful world..
They are trying over here such thing, they saw how yours are getting extra money for nothing..

 

[Finman]

.
Thanks to no one. Our vet guys are not interested to play that kind of game. They have better to do.

To keep tax payers and retired beekeepers in prison is so expencive that 5 Star Hotel is cheaper place to keep them away from their hives.

A cure day in prison costs in Finland 200 euros.
So one month is 6000 euros.



.




.

 

[Hivemaker.]

You can buy 250g of Oxalic acid from fleabay (item no 260925118280) for £8.50 including postage.
Something stinks and I think I can see profits been made.

Or you could by 1kg of oxalic crystals from Maisimore for £8.64.

http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1389

 

[MuswellMetro]

Or you could by 1kg of oxalic crystals from Maisimore for £8.64.

http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1389

yes, i know but thats is not what i am asking, i want to know whether the NBU admit despite their H&S views that Apibioxal is legal to sublimate or whether the FERA meeting said view we cannot sublimate any form of oxalic acid when it be api-bioxal or pure 100% oxalic dihydrate

We have been through....oxalic is cheaper bought from XYZ several times, we know it cost pence compared to api-bioxal, and that's a rip off

 

[Hivemaker.]

yes, i know but thats is not what i am asking, i want to know whether the NBU admit despite their H&S views that Apibioxal is legal to sublimate

Why don't you ask them.

 

[itma]

ok, because i understand that the NBU have indicated at a meeting at FERA on friday that oxalic dihydrate treatment from November would be illegal unless you use the EU approved medicant Api-Bioxal i have had some Api-Bioxal specially flown in by courier from Italy ( ie my Daughter who was returning from Holiday)

So the 35g sachet of Api-Bioxal bought over the counter in a Pet Shop costs 12 euros (£8) and appears to be 88.6% oxalic Dihydrate made by manufacturer Liaf Batch noA151604 exp 30/6/2018

The italian instructions subject to my bad translating says a) dilute with 500ml of water and use at 5ml per occupied seam of bees or b)sublimate at 2.3g per hive for 3 minutes leave hive closed for 10 minute

Now as i read the instruction Api-blxoal therefore can be legally used for sublimation and therefore even though the NBU have severe reservation on the sublimation of Oxalic Dihydrate the NBU cannot stop me as the EU product is legal if sublimated

Does anyone who attended the FERA meeting have views on my stance on sublimation?

Well done that man (and his daughter!)

Vaporising Api-Bioxal was mentioned from the floor and not properly responded to from the Inspectorate.

I believe Api-Bioxal is approved in Italy, and as such can be legally used today - but (like Amitraz/Apivar) that would require a vet's prescription for use in the UK.

However, what was indicated to last Friday's meeting was that Api-Bioxal was going through UK approval, and that it would (maybe as soon as December) be just as legal to use as (say) Apiguard - though as such it would need to be recorded on one's Veterinary Medicines Record (batch numbers and all, just like Apiguard ...)


Last Friday's meeting was the South East Region's forum.
What about other regions? Are they having (or have they had) such forums with their Inspectorate?
I'd be interested to learn what is being said to other regions!

 

[MuswellMetro]

Well done that man (and his daughter!)

Vaporising Api-Bioxal was mentioned from the floor and not properly responded to from the Inspectorate.

I believe Api-Bioxal is approved in Italy, and as such can be legally used today - but (like Amitraz/Apivar) that would require a vet's prescription for use in the UK.

However, what was indicated to last Friday's meeting was that Api-Bioxal was going through UK approval, and that it would (maybe as soon as December) be just as legal to use as (say) Apiguard - though as such it would need to be recorded on one's Veterinary Medicines Record (batch numbers and all, just like Apiguard ...)


Last Friday's meeting was the South East Region's forum.
What about other regions? Are they having (or have they had) such forums with their Inspectorate?
I'd be interested to learn what is being said to other regions!

thanks Man of Dover

photo of the packet ,DrStitson or anyone else who speaks italian what is the full translation on the back

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why are people getting their knickers in a twist over this - no way can they ban the sale of Oxalic crystals (first time I encountered it was at sea for cleaning the deck brasswork.)
as (if forecasts are correct) the only approved medicine would be Apibioxial thus the only one you need put on your veterinary medicine card, if you used anything else, there would be no record of it anywhere - so how can they prove it.

 

[Thymallus]

Or you could by 1kg of oxalic crystals from Maisimore for £8.64.

http://www.bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1389

Missed that one. Doesn't obscure the point of thrift. Being a Yorkshire man that's important.
Maisemore here we come.

 

[mbc]

Why are people getting their knickers in a twist over this - no way can they ban the sale of Oxalic crystals (first time I encountered it was at sea for cleaning the deck brasswork.)
as (if forecasts are correct) the only approved medicine would be Apibioxial thus the only one you need put on your veterinary medicine card, if you used anything else, there would be no record of it anywhere - so how can they prove it.

Batch numbers and sell by dates, no wonder there are so many midnight thymolers pretending to be tf

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Why are people getting their knickers in a twist over this - no way can they ban the sale of Oxalic crystals (first time I encountered it was at sea for cleaning the deck brasswork.)
as (if forecasts are correct) the only approved medicine would be Apibioxial thus the only one you need put on your veterinary medicine card, if you used anything else, there would be no record of it anywhere - so how can they prove it.

Since all the packs of Apilife Var I bought last year bore the same batch number it's going to be a nightmare for beauracrats to track down who what when and how when it comes to oxalic acid doses.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Why are people getting their knickers in a twist over this - no way can they ban the sale of Oxalic crystals (first time I encountered it was at sea for cleaning the deck brasswork.)
as (if forecasts are correct) the only approved medicine would be Apibioxial thus the only one you need put on your veterinary medicine card, if you used anything else, there would be no record of it anywhere - so how can they prove it.

The batch number and sell by date is in my first post

 

[itma]

...
The italian instructions subject to my bad translating says a) dilute with 500ml of water and use at 5ml per occupied seam of bees or b)sublimate at 2.3g per hive for 3 minutes leave hive closed for 10 minute
...

That's pretty much what it looks like -- but for trickling it is 500ml of 1:1 (metric!) syrup, not water.
Now 35g into 500ml of syrup is rather stronger than we are used to using ... (45g into a litre of syrup) so ... I'm guessing, but this looks more like the old Italian 4.5% than the 3.2% we are used to.
/// This should run longer than making up strong syrup ...


Incidentally, the PDF leaflet has some interesting stuff, confirming its Italian Vet Medicine status, etc.
The bit that I noticed however was the bar chart at bottom right of the second side, showing varroa kill rates of 94.5% and 92.9%.
Then I noticed that they are claiming the higher varroa kill for trickling ...
Although the testing does seem to have been done by some CRA-API laboratory ...

 

[MuswellMetro]

That's pretty much what it looks like -- but for trickling it is 500ml of 1:1 (metric!) syrup, not water.
Now 35g into 500ml of syrup is rather stronger than we are used to using ... (45g into a litre of syrup) so ... I'm guessing, but this looks more like the old Italian 4.5% #####than the 3.2% we are used to.
/// This should run longer than making up strong syrup ...


Incidentally, the PDF leaflet has some interesting stuff, confirming its Italian Vet Medicine status, etc.
The bit that I noticed however was the bar chart at bottom right of the second side, showing varroa kill rates of 94.5% and 92.9%.
Then I noticed that they are claiming the higher varroa kill for trickling ...
Although the testing does seem to have been done by some CRA-API laboratory ...

yes notice the graph which goes against the LASI testing done by prof Ratneiks Phd student but i had issues with the low sample of hive on LASI as well

#With 88.6% in Apibioxal compared to 99.5% Oxalic dihydrate does that reduce the said 4.2% in bioxal to 3.7% ? , sorry not a chemist ( i assume the bioxal has some anti clumping or easy dissovle agent hence only 88.6% by weight

 

[MuswellMetro]

i now have Api=Bioxal english leaflet.....are the NBU playing fast and loose with the H&S rule saying an organic acid mask is required (ie A1 P3 filter) because it says FPP2 mask which is of a very low filter standard...

 

[itma]

i now have Api=Bioxal english leaflet.....are the NBU playing fast and loose with the H&S rule saying an organic acid mask is required (ie A1 P3 filter) because it says FPP2 mask which is of a very low filter standard...

The acid vapour mask H&S advice comes from the U of Sussex H&S man - he's not part of LASI, but Hasan should be able to get you contact details (sorry, I didn't write down his name. Dr anyway and particularly well genned up on the medical aspects).
His point is that, after sublimation, the tiny condensed particles in the 'smoke' have a large enough proportion to be of concern, that are so tiny as to go straight through any "dust" mask.

Its definitely NOT an NBU call.
The RBI (I can only presume reflecting NBU thinking) simply believes that the long-term health risks of even small exposure to inhaled Oxalic particulates makes vaporisation too dangerous for beekeepers because "we all know what beekeepers are like" - his words, not mine.



The mask should be only be needed in case of screw-ups, the primary protection being distance from the action, both in space and time. Hence, sealing the hive, sealing the heater's access to the hive, long wires to the battery connection (switch), working from well away and upwind, and allowing lots of time for cooling and 'smoke' settling before removing the kit from the hive.

Yes, it would be unfortunate if both Varrox and Api-Bioxal were to be advising an inadequate spec for PPE.