ambrosia bee fondant

[Suzi Q]

Yep, icing sugar and dried glucose syrup....

 

[dpearce4]

lol heart attack over lol, that stuff is fine, its the ready made stuff that is bad.

 

[Rosti]

Dont know about glucose powder never tried it. I used digital scales to start with to wiegh the glucose syrup. I dont think glucose syrup is classed as liquid as the packaging states contents in grams not litres

Steve

Steve, thanks for promoting my video / recipe. It is available directly on the forum under the vids tab. You can sub for glucose powder and water at approx 8 parts powder 2 parts water, but the final fondant is not as stable ( water migration). I measure glucose syrup as a vol because you can then dissolve straight off the spoon and so there is less waste. A volumetric guess is fine given the important control point is evap rate during the boil stage. Syrup is available from most cake decoration suppliers and pretty cheap.

 

[steve's bees]

Hi Rosti, excellent vid easy to follow. Im just glad that I've been able to pass the imfo on to some other beeks that have made use of it. Thanks for making it in the first place.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

What has Varroa got to do with the adequate feeding in September to stop what I see as to much interference with normal wintering?
I see new beekeepers at this time wanting to open up hives, changing combs, feeding fondant etc, none of which are required as yet. Floors can be changed soon with no disturbance, it takes a couple of seconds. if you are looking at OSM as an early crop then spring management may have to be changed.

 

[victor meldrew]

What has Varroa got to do with the adequate feeding in September to stop what I see as to much interference with normal wintering?
I see new beekeepers at this time wanting to open up hives, changing combs, feeding fondant etc, none of which are required as yet. Floors can be changed soon with no disturbance, it takes a couple of seconds. if you are looking at OSM as an early crop then spring management may have to be changed.

Nothing at all!
I assume you are referring to my post?
I used the word Varroa in response to your post No 19
Ie What happened to feeding down in September and leaving stocks alone until March/April, I haven't used fondant in 40+ years of beekeeping, or have things radically changed now?
I used to have 250+ stocks and had a feeder on each 12 months of the year.
I was indicating that it's relevance to todays Winter preparations is outdated since the advent of Varroa
I don't know your age but bee candy feeding has been around for over 100 years
VM

 

[username]

Hi Rosti, excellent vid easy to follow. Im just glad that I've been able to pass the imfo on to some other beeks that have made use of it. Thanks for making it in the first place.

looks good steve

 

[BILL.HEARD]

And I have not met many commercial bee men in the last 100 years using candy in winter!
It doesn't do the colony any good and puts the bees under stress.

 

[Poly Hive]

Indeed.

And where is the proof for that rather sweeping comment?

PH

 

[victor meldrew]

Indeed.

And where is the proof for that rather sweeping comment?

PH

In the last hundred years . Gawd! He is an old one
VM

 

[priono]

Neh Then
I stir from removing from heat ,right up to kneading temp!
Er! I did but not after watching the video.
Save a lot on elbow grease . Cheers .
VM

Just read the nordzucker recipe:

"ambrosia Beefood Syrup is composed, in the dry mass, of 40%
highly pure fructose, 30% each glucose and sucrose, and water.
ambrosia Beefood Syrup is not susceptible to microbiological spoi-
lage thanks to its very high concentration (72.7% dry matter). The
high percentage of fructose prevents crystallization."

here is a link to the leaflet: http://www.nordzucker.de/fileadmin/downloads/Verbraucher/Ambrosia_Brochure_english.pdf

 

[itma]

Just read the nordzucker recipe:

"ambrosia Beefood Syrup is composed, in the dry mass, of 40%
highly pure fructose, 30% each glucose and sucrose, and water.
...

Yes, that is well known.
I think the **Syrup** is extremely good stuff, and at the risk of re-running old arguments, it is different to the syrup that you might make for yourself.
Its chemical composition is actually quite close to that of honey ...

However, Ambrosia **Fondant** is not based on fructose + glucose, and is actually pretty similar to the much cheaper Baker's ("Bako") white fondant.
Making fondant yourself isn't easy to do either well or in quantity, and therefore I think Bako fondant is well worth the (pretty cheap) price.

 

[sipa]

So given that 40% of ambrosia syrup is fructose, I'm tempted to ask is it a blend of HFCS & Sucrose Syrup derived for beet or cane?

Many 10's of thousands of tonnes of HFCS are produced in the UK and much more on the continent Derived from wheat or maize, cheaper than sucrose as well.

 

[bontbee]

neil thats really bad for the bees due to other ingredients in it.

Hi,

can you explain why this is bad for bees, please?

A friend has just been given some silver spoon ready made fondant icing, which he was going to feed to his bees. I remembered this comment and alarm bells started ringing....

I asked him for the list of ingredient and, it took a long time to type, as it was:

sugar, glucose syrup, veg. oil, humectant, glycerol, stabilisers, xantham gum, carboxy methyl cellulose, preservative: potassium sorbate, emulsifier: mono and di-glycerides of fatty acids, flavouring (though after all that lot, it didn't say which flavour!)

Any info appreciated,
thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

Think simple here. Bees require only honey in the depths of winter to provide thermal energy to keep the cluster warm. Nothing else. Honey is carbohydrate and water.

Bees need protein and carbohydrate along with water for brooding.

Bees go weeks and weeks without cleansing flights, so the less indigestibles (and any irritating chemicals) the better. Bees with the 'runs' confined to the hive is a sure sign of trouble. Spoiling more stores by defecating in the hive is bad enough but if the bees have any nosema infection (and most will) it will very rapidly become rampant.

Even unrefined sugar should not be used for winter feeding bees. No extra chemicals, but still enough to give the bees the runs!

RAB

 

[itma]

Unrefined ("brown") sugar should never be fed to bees. Nothing to do with winter.

Supermarket fondant icing is readily available (albeit in small quantities and at a high per-kilo price).
It won't harm the bees. (Especially in small, 'emergency' quantities.)
The tiny quantities of veg oil, etc aren't going to harm the bees. Bees eat pollen for protein - but there's much more veg oil than protein in most pollen!

If you are needing to feed fondant at this point in the season, you are going to need quite a lot before the winter is over -- you have to keep on feeding it if you start.
Bakers fondant is much cheaper, and slightly plainer - and consequently slightly 'stiffer'. But you can't usually get it instantly. My baker puts it on his next weekly order...

Supermarket fondant is fine if you need a little today and haven't got any in your stock.
It will do much less harm than starvation!
But Bako is the more rational choice. The quantity of a whole 12.5kg box isn't much compared to the 40kg (honey) that should be in a pair of hives for winter stores. And, wrapped tightly in plastic (its more storage-fussy than its supermarket version), Bako fondant can be stored from year to year. It makes sense.
But supermarket fondant will not poison your bees. It hasn't poisoned mine in the past, and it hasn't poisoned Terry Clare's (BIBBA past President) efforts at high-quality queen rearing.
Fine if you need some today, shouldn't be your preference though.


// ADDED I notice Bontbee is claiming 10 hives. Having a 12.5kg box of Bako in stock at all times would seem prudent. That's not much per hive ...

 

[oliver90owner]

Unrefined ("brown") sugar should-never-be fed to bees. Nothing to do with winter

I wasn't quite so prescriptive. 'Should' would be a better term as I know it has been done and got away with. I would certainly not feed unrefined sugar, nor even part-refined sugar.

 

[Dishmop]

I used to have 250+ stocks and had a feeder on each 12 months of the year.

Curious to know what was in the feeders for 12 months.

 

[bontbee]

Unrefined ("brown") sugar should never be fed to bees. Nothing to do with winter.

Supermarket fondant icing is readily available (albeit in small quantities and at a high per-kilo price).
It won't harm the bees. (Especially in small, 'emergency' quantities.)
The tiny quantities of veg oil, etc aren't going to harm the bees. Bees eat pollen for protein - but there's much more veg oil than protein in most pollen!

If you are needing to feed fondant at this point in the season, you are going to need quite a lot before the winter is over -- you have to keep on feeding it if you start.
Bakers fondant is much cheaper, and slightly plainer - and consequently slightly 'stiffer'. But you can't usually get it instantly. My baker puts it on his next weekly order...

Supermarket fondant is fine if you need a little today and haven't got any in your stock.
It will do much less harm than starvation!
But Bako is the more rational choice. The quantity of a whole 12.5kg box isn't much compared to the 40kg (honey) that should be in a pair of hives for winter stores. And, wrapped tightly in plastic (its more storage-fussy than its supermarket version), Bako fondant can be stored from year to year. It makes sense.
But supermarket fondant will not poison your bees. It hasn't poisoned mine in the past, and it hasn't poisoned Terry Clare's (BIBBA past President) efforts at high-quality queen rearing.
Fine if you need some today, shouldn't be your preference though.


// ADDED I notice Bontbee is claiming 10 hives. Having a 12.5kg box of Bako in stock at all times would seem prudent. That's not much per hive ...

Thank you itma.

I will pass the info on. I already have Bako, just in case, for my 10 or so colonies thanks. Not sure why you say "claiming", rather than "has", though - I can count! I just noticed that my second sentence suggests that, in fact, I can't...! (I didn't include overwintering nucs in the number of colonies stated on my "stats").

I rarely use fondant on my bees as I prefer to leave sufficient honey stores or, if that isn't enough, get my bees fed up before winter but, as you say, it is handy to have in stock; most of mine actually goes to inexperienced beekeepers whose bees are in need of emergency winter feed. !

The particular reason for my enquiry was because my friend was interested in using a"freebie" on a couple of light hives as a stop gap or, it might be cos he's tight - but he's not tight enough to risk harming his bees....

My concern was dpearce4's quite strident assertion that ready made fondant, compared to fondant made with ordinary icing sugar, (or granulated, as appears in Steve's video), was harmful. - sorry, "really bad"

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.