Alternative food sources and the effects they have on our bees.

[Michael ECB's]

and isn't a pound of sugar cheaper than a pound of jam?

Damaged goods, dented can, label damaged, box damaged.... I have close to 2 tons here.... No cost besides transport costs to collect along with another 10 ton of mixed products...

 

[Michael ECB's]

The paper,
HMF levels in honey and other foodstuffs; effects on bees and human health by Shapla, Solayman and Hua Gan (may be of interest and answer some of your questions regarding the varied diet of your visiting bees.)

Id never heard of this HMF prior to your post and boy has it opened a can of worms!....that’s my once in a while treat, of a Special fish supper or a Tunnocks Teacake now relegated to once a year ( I’m losing the will to live now)

Interesting paper, with clear evidence to links clearly cited. Food for thought.

Cant live in fear.... We all know the destination, it's all about the journey.... None of us are getting out alive....
As I said earlier, one day this is bad, the next day it's not... I still remember the days walking into a Drs rooms and he was smoking... No worries...

 

[Speybee]

Cant live in fear.... We all know the destination, it's all about the journey.... None of us are getting out alive....
As I said earlier, one day this is bad, the next day it's not... I still remember the days walking into a Drs rooms and he was smoking... No worries...

Yes there are two certainties in life.....Death and Taxes.
I don’t live in fear, just mitigating my risks and still “chavan awa” as we say up here.

I think with the interest generated by this chemical, it may become of interest to the farming fraternity and others.

1) you may have the likes of Extinction Rebellion politicising the humble honey bee and the noise that surrounds that ( we live in democracy so everybody out and clap your hands!)
2) you may have the government heaping more legislation on beekeepers (some of it well intentioned, but can throw out the baby with the bath water)
3) this presence of this chemical can be increasingly used a marker/test for the quality of the honey ( never a bad thing in my books)
4) it may well become the “new” ‘smoking’, or if you live in Scotland the “new” ‘you’re obese’ next time you visit your GP....before that it was ‘it could be a virus’, instead of a straight up ‘Sorry Sir/Missus, I don’t know’......

Take your pick.

 

[Michael ECB's]

Please don't get me wrong here.... I don't want to feed anything that will harm my bees.... Ever!
But, the more I look into this HMF thing, the worse it looks...
Heat is apparently the key element causing the HMF inclusion
Invert syrup - made by heating up sucrose/sugar.
Cane Sugar is also extracted using heat.
Beet sugar I imagine the same...
I remember reading something about honey being produced in hotter climates with also have a higher HMF content...

At the end of the day, what do we do? Soldier on.....

Think I will run a test, I have a little feeding spot where I "dump" offcut honey comb from cutouts so a smaller colony can take advantage of this...
Ill stick a can full of holes and see what happens if anything....

We I ma at the moment is very dry with only a minimal amount of Aloe available - Nothing else yet... Hoping this will be of some use to them..
Hope for the best I suppose.... Will update later.

Thanks all for the input....

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is this not high in HMF?

I very much doubt it. I presume its really good for your bees but it's expensive and they do well enough on their own honey topped up with plain old sugar

 

[Erichalfbee]

Please don't get me wrong here.... I don't want to feed anything that will harm my bees.... Ever!
But, the more I look into this HMF thing, the worse it looks...
Heat is apparently the key element causing the HMF inclusion
Invert syrup - made by heating up sucrose/sugar.
Cane Sugar is also extracted using heat.
Beet sugar I imagine the same...
I remember reading something about honey being produced in hotter climates with also have a higher HMF content...

At the end of the day, what do we do? Soldier on.....

Think I will run a test, I have a little feeding spot where I "dump" offcut honey comb from cutouts so a smaller colony can take advantage of this...
Ill stick a can full of holes and see what happens if anything....

We I ma at the moment is very dry with only a minimal amount of Aloe available - Nothing else yet... Hoping this will be of some use to them..
Hope for the best I suppose.... Will update later.

Thanks all for the input....

Invert is made chemically and fondant isn't heated

 

[Speybee]

I very much doubt it. I presume its really good for your bees but it's expensive and they do well enough on their own honey topped up with plain old sugar

Michael I’m sure you don’t want to harm your bees, none of us do, they are far too expensive as livestock, for a start!
I am just sticking to cane sugar syrup1:1 or 2:1 depending on seasonal requirements topped up with Ambrosia beefeed and next year looking at the cheaper fondant alternatives suggested by other forumites.
For all of us, this HMF debate will no doubt rattle on and our general knowledge of possible implications will too.
Fingers crossed never lost a hive yet due to either cold or starvation, but have lost one for the first time, to being swarmed out last month.
I find so far, that bees are far from predictable and we all have to just work with them and go with the flow so’s to speak......their flow, and that’s what makes them so fascinating.
It will be interesting to know please, how Micheal gets on with his bees being used as “biodigesters” ?...he might even be at the forefront of a new industry, in getting rid of some food waste rather than some of it going to landfill?

 

[Speybee]

Invert is made chemically and fondant isn't heated

Yes now finding and looking at the the ‘blurb’ from Belgosuc it appears to be made using enzymes rather than heat.
Two sides to every coin and all that.

 

[Michael ECB's]

Well, trials begin... I'm rather keen because of the higher fructose levels... As per literature...
One of my weaker colonies as well as a small wild tree colony has access to this... (Tree colony to be soon removed as it's in one of our staff gardens)
This is for want of a better word - My table scraps area....
Hard to believe, the small pile of wax underneath this tin was about 5kgs of crystallised crushed honey comb from a cut out.... Waste not - want not....
Isn't nature an incredible thing....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Found this on a SA permaculture/self sufficiency page I follow on Facebook today.

 

[Michael ECB's]

Found this on a SA permaculture/self sufficiency page I follow on Facebook today.

Thanks for sharing JBM, although we may not have a very cold winter here we do have a tough one.... many regions such as EC are very dry, drought has even stopped most of us from watering our own gardens.... No more flower beds for most of us... Save the water for pastures for our animals....
Even toilets - If its yellow let it mellow - if its brown - flush it down...
Africa, its not for sissies......

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Even toilets - If its yellow let it mellow - if its brown - flush it down...

You have a flush! - When I was setting up the project In London (Pitseng) there were only pit latrines there.
sissy!

 

[Finman]

What ever the picture shows, water melon has 6% sugar. It will not give any burst to bees.

Honey bee is not a fruit consumer.
"Super mega burst" ......
.

 

[Michael ECB's]

You have a flush! - When I was setting up the project In London (Pitseng) there were only pit latrines there.
sissy!

Pitseng in London??? Pit latrines, that would make sense.... "Pit Latrine" Said with Posh English accent!

Our Pitseng here in Lesotho only has "Long Drops".... Im certain of this,,,, Loooong Drop!

Pit latrines, Never have I heard them refered to as that - well not here anyway.... Only in the old B/W British flicks....
Thanks for the good laugh...

 

[Michael ECB's]

What ever the picture shows, water melon has 6% sugar. It will not give any burst to bees.

Honey bee is not a fruit consumer.
"Super mega burst" ......
.

That may be the case - only 6% sugar,,,, BUT it has water, here in parts of Africa, water is life....
Sugar, energy & protein take a back seat.... Water is KING...
Every day of the week....
Just saying............

 

[Finman]

That may be the case - only 6% sugar,,,, BUT it has water, here in parts of Africa, water is life....
Sugar, energy & protein take a back seat.... Water is KING...
Every day of the week....
Just saying............

Yes, I think that bees get water from melons.
Normally bees do not forage 6% sugar juice.

 

[Finman]

Pitseng in London??? Pit latrines, that would make sense.... "Pit Latrine" Said with Posh English accent!

Our Pitseng here in Lesotho only has "Long Drops".... Im certain of this,,,, Loooong Drop!

Pit latrines, Never have I heard them refered to as that - well not here anyway.... Only in the old B/W British flicks....
Thanks for the good laugh...

But you have there dog poo to harvest after night mist..... If bees like it.. perhaps not..

 

[Dutchman]

Many years ago in the Netherlands I had a good few combs full of pink strawberry flavoured honey. I discovered a jam factory nearby where they left the barrels in which they were supplied outside with some syrup in. It was quite nice on toast.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pitseng in London??? Pit latrines, that would make sense....

London is the alternative name for Pitseng Lesotho, it even features on official literature nowadays.
Long drops, pit latrines, whatever - same thing. There is (or was then) a government drive to encourage everyone to dig their own pit - they were even given a 'sentry box' free of charge to encourage them. I actually followed a lorry back from Hlotse one day stacked up with a batch of these 'free gifts'

 

[Erichalfbee]

Found this on a SA permaculture/self sufficiency page I follow on Facebook today.


View attachment 22035

Are they cheaper than invert?