Aggressive Bees!

[philipm]

If every beekeeper culled their bees or swapped queens whenever they had an off day I don't think there would be many bees left in the world. Get real every hive has a bad day just some are more extreme than others they are the ones that need sorting out.

 

[SDM]

If every beekeeper culled their bees or swapped queens whenever they had an off day

We'd have nicer bees.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

In another thread I was planning to cull a difficult (not impossible) colony. Good news is I've seen the light and united them.

The genetics of that queen will be lost once the drones reach the end of their natural lifespan.

They would have been fine if kept on the side of a field (as long as you didn't mind driving 1/2 mile down the road to get out of your beesuit). Just not in a back garden, 20 yards from my front door.

Like humans we each have our place. I need to organise an out-apiary.

 

[B+.]

Jeez - we have a new messeiah!

The stock is near perfect. I am far from it.

 

[B+.]

In another thread I was planning to cull a difficult (not impossible) colony. Good news is I've seen the light and united them.

The genetics of that queen will be lost once the drones reach the end of their natural lifespan.

They would have been fine if kept on the side of a field (as long as you didn't mind driving 1/2 mile down the road to get out of your beesuit). Just not in a back garden, 20 yards from my front door.

This only moves the problem. Those drones will, in all probability, still mate with virgin queens. Someone else will be cursing you for moving nasty bees to their area.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

This only moves the problem. Those drones will, in all probability, still mate with virgin queens. Someone else will be cursing you for moving nasty bees to their area.

Changed my mind on this. The probability of any of these drones mating is low. I did cull 2 1/2 brood frames of foundationless drone brood so not many to emerge. Not many virgin queens yet and I haven't started any queen rearing moves.
These local mongrels are probably better behaved than these F1 pedigree hybrid nightmares I hear about.

. . . . Ben

 

[B+.]

These local mongrels are probably better behaved than these F1 pedigree hybrid nightmares I hear about.

. . . . Ben

Have you seen pedigree bees?

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Have you seen pedigree bees?

No. It's the first generation cross that can be difficult I understand?
Avoided if you buy in a new queen from the breeder each time but too expensive for me.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No. It's the first generation cross that can be difficult I understand?
Avoided if you buy in a new queen from the breeder each time

Which is what they hope will happen

 

[B+.]

No. It's the first generation cross that can be difficult I understand?
Avoided if you buy in a new queen from the breeder each time but too expensive for me.

No. I get good reports of F1 and F2 (e.g. https://twitter.com/Bplus_Amc/status/974226676241530880 ).
Each to their own but, as ITLD says: "Good queens don't cost. They pay."

 

[SDM]

No. It's the first generation cross that can be difficult I understand?
Avoided if you buy in a new queen from the breeder each time but too expensive for me.

Who told you this nonsense?
Someone selling you local mongrels no doubt.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Who told you this nonsense?
Someone selling you local mongrels no doubt.

OK let's back-track before I made that comment.

What is the probability that a drone will pass on it's unpopular genetics? This one colony will not be able to be drone-flooding an area.

 

[SDM]

OK let's back-track before I made that comment.

What is the probability that a drone will pass on it's unpopular genetics? This one colony will not be able to be drone-flooding an area.

No, but it only takes 1 of those drones out of the 12-15 queens mate with to set a colony off.

 

[madasafish]

OK let's back-track before I made that comment.

What is the probability that a drone will pass on it's unpopular genetics? This one colony will not be able to be drone-flooding an area.

I keep bees in our garden.. They are calm and peaceable even when cutting grass and strimming round hives.
Why? Because I cull the bad and raise queens from the good... The odd queen will produce nasty bees so I requeen

As the queen mates with up to 15 -20 drones, the chances of an odd colony affecting every queen and every bee is unlikely..

I read a simple explanation of bee genetics somewhere : made it all as clear as mud to me..

But if I can do it , anyone can..

I have long ago stopped believing what other people tell me without doing some research or my own.. Those who unquestioningly quote the opinions of others appear a gift to con artists, charlatans or politicians..

 

[B+.]

What is the probability that a drone will pass on it's unpopular genetics? This one colony will not be able to be drone-flooding an area.

That is impossible to say.
Not all drones are successful and don't mate. However, those that do contribute their genes to the next diploid generation (workers and queens). In population genetics, we observe the behaviour of the colony as a whole and talk about their "average performance", but, we are talking about both the queen and the workers effects. What we do not see is the effect of a drone mating with a virgin queen, which may then make a number of queens. This can be difficult to follow (except through single drone insemination) as the queens spermatheca contains a mixture of sperm from all the drones she mated with. In short, the effect of your drones can be difficult to measure and permeate subsequent generations.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

B+: Yes we can be making decisions about a whole colony when it is only when the queen uses sperm from one of the drones she's mated with and these age into defenders.

If people are importing queens from outside the area, outside the country there's no way of controlling the population genetics. Weeding out aggressive bees is then a management issue rather than a breeding issue. ?

 

[B+.]

B+: Yes we can be making decisions about a whole colony when it is only when the queen uses sperm from one of the drones she's mated with and these age into defenders.

If people are importing queens from outside the area, outside the country there's no way of controlling the population genetics. Weeding out aggressive bees is then a management issue rather than a breeding issue. ?

I was talking about diploid larvae which are raised to become queens instead of workers. The effect of your drones can pass down through the generations and be magnified many times over.
The population I was referring to was the colony which is a superorganism and depends on the queen and worker effect (although we shouldn't ignore the drone) for it's performance. I don't know where you've heard that rubbish about imported queens. It certainly isn't true in the queens I see. My Amc are much calmer and productive than any local mongrel I have ever seen. We could have a long discussion about why that is so but it would be way above the scope of the beginners forum.
I leave you with this thought: if imported queens are so aggressive, how do you explain this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZ0ZmN-W8M )?

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Those bees look barely alive compared to mine. Calm, definitely. There's going to be natural variability in any flavour of bees.
I'm saying you have to manage out unpopular traits but you can't control all the drones around you as a hobbyist with 42 apiaries within 10km. Just do the best you can.

Here's another question: nature or nurture?

The unmanageable swarm I caught last year had a failing queen (dropping drone eggs in worker brood) and I made a mess of feeding them (lid came off and there was confusion as they couldn't find their way out of the roof). How much did this add to their temper aside from any genetics?
Even after they requeened themselves and I sorted out the feeder, they never settled down.

 

[B+.]

Those bees look barely alive compared to mine. Calm, definitely. There's going to be natural variability in any flavour of bees.
I'm saying you have to manage out unpopular traits but you can't control all the drones around you as a hobbyist with 42 apiaries within 10km. Just do the best you can.

Here's another question: nature or nurture?

The unmanageable swarm I caught last year had a failing queen (dropping drone eggs in worker brood) and I made a mess of feeding them (lid came off and there was confusion as they couldn't find their way out of the roof). How much did this add to their temper aside from any genetics?
Even after they requeened themselves and I sorted out the feeder, they never settled down.

It sounds like you know it all and need no help from me. Good Luck

 

[For want of a better word]

It sounds like you know it all and need no help from me. Good Luck

Tad harsh!


But I have seen colonies that have been pussycats suddenly get a real aggressive munt on.......

weather... time of day... or a bad batch of sperm from mum?????


Chons da