Affordable prewired assembled frames?

[Paulypaul]

Gwenyn Gruffydd are selling 10-packs of pre-wired, pre-assembled DN4 (£14.99) and SN4 (£14.40) frames - Langstroth also available.
https://gwenyngruffydd.co.uk/products/pre-wired-national-brood-frames-10-pack-copy

They require their own, slightly smaller than usual, wax foundation (£20.50 for 12 DN4, £20.50 for 19 x SN4), which they also sell - personally, I'd just cut some starter strips.

By comparison, Thorne sell a 10-pack of unassembled DN4 frames, with no nails for £21.40.
https://www.thorne.co.uk/frames-fou...dard-frames/dn4-brood-frames-packs-of-10.html

Is there a catch I'm missing? If the quality is similar (or hopefully better, considering the fail rate for Thorne frames), do I not need to build frames any more?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The frames Gruff sells are from Denrosa (Murray McGregor) and they are of excellent quality, as is the wax foundation

 

[Wilco]

Gwenyn Gruffydd are selling 10-packs of pre-wired, pre-assembled DN4 (£14.99) and SN4 (£14.40) frames - Langstroth also available.
https://gwenyngruffydd.co.uk/products/pre-wired-national-brood-frames-10-pack-copy

They require their own, slightly smaller than usual, wax foundation (£20.50 for 12 DN4, £20.50 for 19 x SN4), which they also sell - personally, I'd just cut some starter strips.

By comparison, Thorne sell a 10-pack of unassembled DN4 frames, with no nails for £21.40.
https://www.thorne.co.uk/frames-fou...dard-frames/dn4-brood-frames-packs-of-10.html

Is there a catch I'm missing? If the quality is similar (or hopefully better, considering the fail rate for Thorne frames), do I not need to build frames any more?

Unwaxed though- £20 for approx. 17 sheets of wax so approx. 1.15 per sheet wax. Takes cost to £26.49 for brood.

He can't have much margin on those although will be saving by selling the wax separately. He also appears to have reduced pack size down from Murray's 11 to 10. Good luck to him.

I bought a load from Murray last year to try to resell and was priced slightly less than Gwenyn's price last year for waxed frames but struggled to shift them and wound up using lots for my own hives.

I second JBM regarding the quality, they are excellent.

 

[sipa]

Seems like a very expensive option.
However, for some they will be ideal.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Gwenyn Gruffydd are selling 10-packs of pre-wired, pre-assembled DN4

frames Gruff sells are from Denrosa

The GG frames in Paul's link have vertical wires and conventional Hoffman shouders, while Denrosa (this year, at any rate) have horizontal wires, DN5 top bars and flat Hoffman shoulders.

Either Murray has changed the design, GG has forgotten to change the web photo, or he sources his frames elsewhere.

a catch I'm missing?

Don't forget to include the delivery charge in the per-frame cost; Denrosa waxed, by the pallet inc. delivery (£105) and VAT work out at £2.80 each. I'm shovelling them into boxes as fast as I can and they're going straight out to the field, and I can tell you that in terms of stress relief, they're worth every penny.

 

[jeff33]

Unwaxed though- £20 for approx. 17 sheets of wax so approx. 1.15 per sheet wax. Takes cost to £26.49 for brood.

He can't have much margin on those although will be saving by selling the wax separately. He also appears to have reduced pack size down from Murray's 11 to 10. Good luck to him.

I bought a load from Murray last year to try to resell and was priced slightly less than Gwenyn's price last year for waxed frames but struggled to shift them and wound up using lots for my own hives.

I second JBM regarding the quality, they are excellent.

It's the pallet price which stings you. I was all excited when Helen quoted me for 500 frames and some wax dipped brood boxes but by the time you added VAT and £95 p&p there wasn't much in it. I would have had to dble my order to make it worthwhile.
I will have to say that I am now sick of making frames and for my sanity I may have to get a pallet of frames in.

Who has bought them from Murray this year, are they still Hofmann self-spacing?

 

[Wilco]

It's the pallet price which stings you. I was all excited when Helen quoted me for 500 frames and some wax dipped brood boxes but by the time you added VAT and £95 p&p there wasn't much in it. I would have had to dble my order to make it worthwhile.
I will have to say that I am now sick of making frames and for my sanity I may have to get a pallet of frames in.

Who has bought them from Murray this year, are they still Hofmann self-spacing?

Yes, it's everything adding up and as the main part of my beekeeping income is services there's no point me being VAT registered. Although the frames are excellent. Anyone near you you could club together with for large orders?

Obviously they're pine boxes not cedar but they do the job. Had a stack of the shallows out this winter at one apiary and they still look smart.

Oh, a tip... Ask if they're happy to fill some of the boxes with frames to maximise space use on the pallet.

 

[Swarm]

The GG frames in Paul's link have vertical wires and conventional Hoffman shouders, while Denrosa (this year, at any rate) have horizontal wires, DN5 top bars and flat Hoffman shoulders.

Either Murray has changed the design, GG has forgotten to change the web photo, or he sources his frames elsewhere.


Don't forget to include the delivery charge in the per-frame cost; Denrosa waxed, by the pallet inc. delivery (£105) and VAT work out at £2.80 each. I'm shovelling them into boxes as fast as I can and they're going straight out to the field, and I can tell you that in terms of stress relief, they're worth every penny.

They are from a different supplier, he says so in one of his yootoob offerings.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Who has bought them from Murray this year, are they still Hofmann self-spacing?

Yes, and I saw somewhere that Murray reckoned that the pointy shoulder wasn't worth the extra machining cost, so all shoulders are flat.

 

[Wilco]

Yes, and I saw somewhere that Murray reckoned that the pointy shoulder wasn't worth the extra machining cost, so all shoulders are flat.

View attachment 39872

I prefer Murray's way. A fair amount of propolis can be added to seal a point between frames with the standard design. Flat edges tend to remain propolis free and just the bit on the edges get gummed so much easier to separate.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I prefer Murray's way. A fair amount of propolis can be added to seal a point between frames with the standard design. Flat edges tend to remain propolis free and just the bit on the edges get gummed so much easier to separate.

I think, again it's an English affectation - it seems that much of the rest of the world is happy with flat edged shoulders.
Even Manley didn't bother with chamfered edges to his frames, and they run the whole length of the side bars.

 

[Wilco]

I think, again it's an English affectation - it seems that much of the rest of the world is happy with flat edged shoulders.
Even Manley didn't bother with chamfered edges to his frames, and they run the whole length of the side bars.

Well I guess I was nearly born in Wales.

 

[jeff33]

Just put a message out for a bulk order via the local beekeepers' club.. . unlikely to get much interest from the mostly 2 hives owners!

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

It's the pallet price which stings you. I was all excited when Helen quoted me for 500 frames and some wax dipped brood boxes but by the time you added VAT and £95 p&p there wasn't much in it. I would have had to dble my order to make it worthwhile.
I will have to say that I am now sick of making frames and for my sanity I may have to get a pallet of frames in.

Who has bought them from Murray this year, are they still Hofmann self-spacing?

We have had a recent full pallet delivery from Murray and can confirm the Hoffman spacing.
We also received 14x12 frames with vertical wires which I really like, I do put a little zigzag into the wire as it stops the wax slipping, I have been doing the same when wiring our own for a long time.
I'm waiting on national boxes, flight boards, roofs & floors & fingers crossed they arrive soon.

 

[pargyle]

I think, again it's an English affectation - it seems that much of the rest of the world is happy with flat edged shoulders.
Even Manley didn't bother with chamfered edges to his frames, and they run the whole length of the side bars.

When I first started keeping bees I made my own frames on my bandsaw - I had the ability to shape them but not create the chamfered points - so flat edges. I agree, there's no real difference in terms of proposilation. I added domed upholstery nails to separate the frames - actually made things worse as the bees stuck them together with loads of propolis. I'm still using some of those home made frames - they have been cleaned a couple of time and re-wired but they work OK and are still in usable condition so .. nothing to hate about flat sided bars.

 

[thorn]

Is there any reason these frames can't be put through a steamer and the wax replaced?

 

[Antipodes]

nothing to hate about flat sided bars.

Fabulous. I've got nothing else but flat sided bars.

 

[Antipodes]

Yes, and I saw somewhere that Murray reckoned that the pointy shoulder wasn't worth the extra machining cost, so all shoulders are flat.

View attachment 39872

They are starting to look a lot more like what we use down here. Wire running across.

 

[Antipodes]

Is there any reason these frames can't be put through a steamer and the wax replaced?

I do that with all of mine (multiple times), except if the lugs are broken. Sometimes I'll re-tension the wires with the crimper. Takes a second or two. Popping in new foundation is a cinch.

 

[jeff33]

Just had a quote from Helen. Assembled frames come in at £3.04 incl P&P and VAT each. That's £1.30 cheaper than Gwenyn (looking at price for 11 frames) and £1.60 compared to standard assembled hofmann.