Advice on sterilising a hive killed by nosema with strong alkalines.

[The Riviera Kid]

I found one of my colonies dead when I went to give them oxalic acid and it looks like nosema got them.

I have been told that scrubbing hive parts in a strongly alkaline solution (e.g. made from caustic soda) is as effective at killing nosema spores as acetic acid. I know of some beekeepers who was their gloves and hive tool in between inspecting hives to stop the spread of infection.

Is there any science in this? Does it work?

If so, how high does the pH have to be for the solution to be effective? And would it corrode metal work like acetic acid does?

 

[Finman]

.
Alkalines are not right stuff to that job. Alkaline destroyes the wax.

Ice acetic (86%) gasification is the right one.

 

[victor meldrew]

I use 80% glacial acetic acid because it all I could get
VM

 

[itma]

Isn't "glacial" (freezes on a cold day) Acetic Acid supposed to be essentially waterless ? ("Anhydrous" - less than about 0.15% water?)

 

[itma]

... I know of some beekeepers who was their gloves and hive tool in between inspecting hives to stop the spread of infection.

Is there any science in this? Does it work?

If so, how high does the pH have to be for the solution to be effective? And would it corrode metal work like acetic acid does?

Washing hive tools and (rubber or plastic) gloves between hives is indeed good practice.
And recommended by DEFRA/FERA/NBU.
But not in a strong acid or alkali solution!
Just washing soda. 1 kg to 5 litres of water is the right strength.

A bucket with a well-sealing top, half-full of washing soda solution is a good way to store your hive tools, uncapping fork and tweezers/forceps, and then carry them to your apiary. You can then use a stainless scouring pad to clean the tools and your gloves between hives.
I use one of those Clip-Loc clear plastic boxes.
Bee inspectors change their soda solution daily. At home, you only need change it when it gets too mucky for your liking.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I have been told that scrubbing hive parts in a strongly alkaline solution (e.g. made from caustic soda) is as effective at killing nosema spores as acetic acid. I know of some beekeepers who was their gloves and hive tool in between inspecting hives to stop the spread of infection.

Some do clean hive parts with lye, or scorching if wood, but a bleach solution will do a good job, plus good for cleaning hive tools ect between hives.

Combs can be fumigated with acetic,or even freezing them will kill a lot of nosema ceranae spores.

 

[Moggs]

I know of some beekeepers who was their gloves and hive tool in between inspecting hives to stop the spread of infection.

Is there any science in this? Does it work?

Easy. Small honey buckets x2. Soda in one and the other empty for hive debris. 2 hive tools, one in the soda bucket, one in the hand, alternating between hives. Gloves (nitryl) easily rinsed at the time of tool change.

 

[Karol]

Out of interest what is the contact time required to kill the spores?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Out of interest what is the contact time required to kill the spores?

Which spores Karol, nosema ceranae,nosema apis, AFB, and with what method, cleaning with washing soda,caustic soda (lye), acetic acid, bleach, flaming with a blowtorch.

 

[Moggs]

DEFRA guidance is 1 part bleach to 6 of water for 20 minutes for most bacteria. Spores are tough little blighters. A dip in some strong soda is better than no dip at all, one might think.

 

[Karol]

Which spores Karol, nosema ceranae,nosema apis, AFB, and with what method, cleaning with washing soda,caustic soda (lye), acetic acid, bleach, flaming with a blowtorch.

LOL!

That'll teach me not to be a pedant

Nosema and per Moggs' soda suggestion.

 

[Finman]

.
What a mesh!

There is a difference what you handle

1) Wooden hive parts with flame

2) plastic hive parts with lye, soda what ever strong alkalic

3) Old wooden frames without combs - 3% lyewater boiling

4) combs ... ice acetic but quite few do it-

- Wirkon S sterilizes combs: soak into dilution and then sake after a while the water away.

- combs in bad condition (poo), melt them

Stong alkali changes wax chemically


.

 

[Ruary]

Will people plese be carful and differentiate between Caustic Soda , and washing soda. The first is dangerous in careless hands.

 

[Ruary]

.
What a mesh!

There is a difference what you handle

1) Wooden hive parts with flame

2) plastic hive parts with lye, soda what ever strong alkalic

3) Old wooden frames without combs - 3% lyewater boiling

4) combs ... ice acetic but quite few do it-

- Wirkon S sterilizes combs: soak into dilution and then sake after a while the water away.

- combs in bad condition (poo), melt them

Stong alkali changes wax chemically


.

Would you really go to all that bother for Nosema, fumigation with 80% acetic acid for a fortnight will deal with nosema spores, now if your colony died out from something else.......

 

[Finman]

Would you really go to all that bother for Nosema, fumigation with 80% acetic acid for a fortnight will deal with nosema spores, now if your colony died out from something else.......

Yes, I have every winter nosema in some of my hives and I do not sterilize combs. I only cast away dirty poo frames.

45 years ago I handled ice acetic and it took away skin from my finger. That was enough to me.


I see the nosema cases when I start to feed patty. Nosema hives are not able to eate it. They are not able to start brooding. When I give a frame of fresh emerging bees from another hives, 2/3 of cases start to develope normally.

-

 

[farbee]

Isn't "glacial" (freezes on a cold day) Acetic Acid supposed to be essentially waterless ? ("Anhydrous" - less than about 0.15% water?)

Yes glacial is 100 % or pure acetic acid. There will alway be a little impurities which will vary depending on how much you pay for it . Cheapest is fine for this purpose.
To make into 86% simply dilute (i.e. 86 ml to 14 ml so that final volume is 100ml. For 80% it is 80 ml to 20ml)

 

[Moggs]

Will people plese be carful and differentiate between Caustic Soda , and washing soda. The first is dangerous in careless hands.

Indeed

 

[BeeJayBee]

I have been told that scrubbing hive parts in a strongly alkaline solution (e.g. made from caustic soda) is as effective at killing nosema spores as acetic acid. I know of some beekeepers who was their gloves and hive tool in between inspecting hives to stop the spread of infection.

Is there any science in this? Does it work?

Read the FERA leaflet "Hive Cleaning and Sterilisation"
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=423

 

[Finman]

Read the FERA leaflet "Hive Cleaning and Sterilisation"
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=423

These are not aimed to 2-hive owners.

.

Boil wooden hives in lye water? Sounds odd. A container must be big. The size of Lanstroth box is about 50 litres.

Lye takes off the paintings.

 

[user 6228]

These are not aimed to 2-hive owners.

.

Boil wooden hives in lye water? Sounds odd. A container must be big. The size of Lanstroth box is about 50 litres.

Lye takes off the paintings.

I think she is referring to the section below, which only uses household disinfectant and can be used on both wooden and polystyrene

"Chemical sterilisation with disinfectants.
Brood boxes, and supers (and other beekeeping equipment) can be effectively
sterilised using disinfectants containing hypochlorite. Sodium hypochlorite is present at a concentration of about 3% in household bleach. Research has shown that immersion for twenty minutes in a solution of 0.5% Sodium Hypochlorite in water killsAFB spores and other bacteria. In this case you therefore need to make a solution of one part of household bleach to six parts of water. (Check the label). It is essential that the spores are in contact with the solution, so any items immersed really must be thoroughly clean. For disinfecting one or two boxes a suitable tray could be used and one box side at a time treated. For larger quantities of equipment a deeper trough will be needed. "