Randy Oliver OA sponges

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sean-a said:
Whilst it is not legal it is effective
Alcohol wash test result on 7 hives - zero mites
How do I know?
Couldn't possibly say!!!
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With the so called facts that it has it's drawbacks re does not work for some etc etc seems incredible.
Randy Oliver seems meticulous in his researching what started in the Argentine, apparently.
Would the Argentinians and others a long way from here give us a clue what they have found using the 'strips'?
It would be nigh on impossible to find a more experienced and astute cleaver and experienced and scientific beekeeper than Randy Oliver but as usual there are some who knock him without his vast experience.
This is how stupidity is accepted as normal is it not?
 
Micklemus81 said:
With the so called facts that it has it's drawbacks re does not work for some etc etc seems incredible.
Randy Oliver seems meticulous in his researching what started in the Argentine, apparently.
Would the Argentinians and others a long way from here give us a clue what they have found using the 'strips'?
It would be nigh on impossible to find a more experienced and astute cleaver and experienced and scientific beekeeper than Randy Oliver but as usual there are some who knock him without his vast experience.
This is how stupidity is accepted as normal is it not?
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I don't know who's knocking Randy, he's famously thorough and open in his methodologies. Whether beekeeping in the US is akin to beekeeping in the UK is probably a fair question though - we'd never, for example, provide top ventilation, and we're far less extreme in all climactic ways. I tried Randy's pads last year and found them, anecdotally, useful if not The Answer I'd expected them to be, perhaps unfairly. Don't think you canvreally beat OA sublimation for safe for bees efficacy.
 
I have heard Randy Oliver speak several times about his sponge method for oxalic acid application and have been attracted by the simplicity and relative safety as against sublimation. I have also wondered about the efficacy of trickling eg. how much trickles out of the open mesh floors. I also had a number of years when 40% of my colonies suffered with CBPV generally considered to be exacerbated by Varroa. I did not lose any colonies but they were certainly not of the strength of the non-affected hives. My Varroa control routine was a mix of Apiguard and OA trickling with concerns about Varroa's resistance to Apiguard being raised more recently.

For the last two years I have cut 5cm square Spongetex (Wettex in old parlance) and soaked them in Apibioxal which is an approved product. I did not make my own OA solution as, like it or not is not approved in the UK. The squares were applied damp, not dripping wet. Once the honey supers have been removed I place five of these on the top of the brood frames and then start my autumn feeding. When the feeding is finished, the feeder is removed and the sponges are left in place. I believe that Randy Oliver considers that the bees walk past the sponges and phoretic Varroa come in contact with the OA. The sponges are left in all winter when the mites are phoretic rather than in the cells of larvae, bearing in mind that even if in the current climate of warmer winters some colonies do not necessarily have a brood stop. Even when I feed fondant is given and then everything is removed by the middle of March when brood rearing really kicks off in style. One thing to note is that on removal the sponges are not dried out - still damp and sticky. The other plus is that OA is a poison and Varroa are not likely to become resistant. The sponges are washed, dried and saved for the following year and there was no sign of them being chewed by the bees.

Now I can't verify that this method is making a difference in Varroa numbers as I have not done any drop counts but what I can say is that I have had no oubreak in any of my hives of CBPV in the apiary since the sponges were used and the colonies have been strong and productive. It is early days I am not pushing the method, just saying that I am pleased that my bees seem healthier and I have not had the distressing sight of piles of dead bees outside the hives.
 
Garry R said:
I have heard Randy Oliver speak several times about his sponge method for oxalic acid application and have been attracted by the simplicity and relative safety as against sublimation. I have also wondered about the efficacy of trickling eg. how much trickles out of the open mesh floors. I also had a number of years when 40% of my colonies suffered with CBPV generally considered to be exacerbated by Varroa. I did not lose any colonies but they were certainly not of the strength of the non-affected hives. My Varroa control routine was a mix of Apiguard and OA trickling with concerns about Varroa's resistance to Apiguard being raised more recently.

For the last two years I have cut 5cm square Spongetex (Wettex in old parlance) and soaked them in Apibioxal which is an approved product. I did not make my own OA solution as, like it or not is not approved in the UK. The squares were applied damp, not dripping wet. Once the honey supers have been removed I place five of these on the top of the brood frames and then start my autumn feeding. When the feeding is finished, the feeder is removed and the sponges are left in place. I believe that Randy Oliver considers that the bees walk past the sponges and phoretic Varroa come in contact with the OA. The sponges are left in all winter when the mites are phoretic rather than in the cells of larvae, bearing in mind that even if in the current climate of warmer winters some colonies do not necessarily have a brood stop. Even when I feed fondant is given and then everything is removed by the middle of March when brood rearing really kicks off in style. One thing to note is that on removal the sponges are not dried out - still damp and sticky. The other plus is that OA is a poison and Varroa are not likely to become resistant. The sponges are washed, dried and saved for the following year and there was no sign of them being chewed by the bees.

Now I can't verify that this method is making a difference in Varroa numbers as I have not done any drop counts but what I can say is that I have had no oubreak in any of my hives of CBPV in the apiary since the sponges were used and the colonies have been strong and productive. It is early days I am not pushing the method, just saying that I am pleased that my bees seem healthier and I have not had the distressing sight of piles of dead bees outside the hives.
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Did you mix the Apobioxal according to the instructions as per trickling or a different concentration?
 
Erichalfbee said:
Yes. Randy never did try that did he?
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I think he may have done.
Cut from RA website:
Biodegradable cellulose matrices such as cardboard (chipboard), Swedish sponges, or cotton absorbent fabrics may be used. For full efficacy, roughly 55 – 60 square inches (365 cm2) of delivery matrix must be used if applied across the top bars, or 100 square inches (645 cm2) if hung between the frames. The instructions below are for moisturizer-free Swedish sponges, which hold 100 g of 1:1 (weight to weight) solution of oxalic acid dihydrate to glycerin.
 
Paul_Ward1 said:
I’m trying to find something that can be hung between the frames to get it into the brood that the bees can walk over. Possibly the thin version of the sponger you are using. Any thoughts?
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Yes workshop towels as Randy also used, usually laid over the frames but can be hung over them, same effect.
 
Paul_Ward1 said:
I’m trying to find something that can be hung between the frames to get it into the brood that the bees can walk over. Possibly the thin version of the sponger you are using. Any thoughts?
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The sponges I used are about 5-6mm thick. I see no reason why a strip of them should not hang between frames.
 
robmort said:
Yes workshop towels as Randy also used, usually laid over the frames but can be hung over them, same effect.
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I did read somewhere that the blue workshop towel may be problematic, due to its not foodsafe makeup. Possibly the inclusion of a fire retardant chemical of some sort? Apparent the Swedish towels are an all-round better bet.
 
Swampie said:
I did read somewhere that the blue workshop towel may be problematic, due to its not foodsafe makeup. Possibly the inclusion of a fire retardant chemical of some sort? Apparent the Swedish towels are an all-round better bet.
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Is smoking a hive food safe? Or the use of unsterilised wooden frames, or hive boxes? Honey producton in general is not "food safe".
 
JamezF said:
Not that I'm aware of. Only by vaping or dribbling (or possibly both, depending on how you choose to interpret the instructions) I believe.

James
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I have been reading the following document which is from DEFRA in 2023


https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/productinformationdatabase/files/SPC_Documents/SPC_807534.PDF

A gram of OA per hive per vape seems to be used per brood box in vaping. In some cases the vaping is done every 5 days to keep being effecrive therefore a pretty high dose of oxalic acid being administered over time. I reckon that I use about 40ml of liquid Apibioxal per brood box with the sponges only once in winter without refreshing. I use about 8ml per sponge and 5 sponges in each brood box. This is lower than the 50ml maximum recommended by trickling albeit for longer exposure due to the method although the figures for residual OA in bees shows dramatic decline in bees soon after trickling. How much do the bees actually get when you trickle? The recommended dose is for trickling twice in a season. Looking at the composition of ApiBioxal, all the ingredients are listed and it would be simpler (and cheaper) to make your own mix but one would be breaking some rule/law to do so. I do not advocate breaking the law but by using the sponges am I? I am altering the recommended administration method of a permitted product and never using it when honey supers are on the hive as the sponges are only on the top bars late in the season and winter as the mites move from larvae in cells to phoretic stage as brood rearing slows and stops and where they are more vulnerable to treatment. In addition, the bees do not have a full concentraton of ApiBioxal sloshed on them as with trickling.
 
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