Advice needed please, Colony building slow.

[Insy]

On today's quick check ive notice that the solid wood hive floor being very very wet, so this next week i will be removing this and i will be building and placing a OMF on the hive and raising a little more from the ground.
Im hoping by placing at a greater height and on a OMF will reduce the condensation and dampness inside the hive, as it cannot be doing the bees any good .

But im a little concerned about the colonies progression, ive not had it on any feed which migt be a little mistake but on todays inspection theres just about 3 frames of brood and 3/4 frames of stores, with a couple frames with smidges of stores or nothing stored.
I'd like to add they wasn't a huge colony when they went into overwinter last year as it was a swarm late in july/august i think, possibly bees on 7-9 frames of the brood box so kinda glad they made it through winter.

Now my questions are the following:

1) Should i take 1-2 of the empty frames out and store in a empty hive for now and place 1-2 dummy boards inside to help them work on the other 9 frames and once they progress i remove dummy boards and place the empty combs back in?
2) Should i place pollen patties on and stick a little sugar feed on to see if this helps with the colonies progression/queens laying?
3)When changing form a solid floor to a OMF is ther anything i should do in the transition to prevent them from going into shock?

Any other suggestions is welcome.


I also went out on a drive today round local land to check for oilseed rape, ive found 3 VERY big fields of oilseed rape which has yellow flowers starting to form already, and in the opposite direction i found another 3 fields which slightly smaller with oilseed rape on aswell.
All fields are roughly 2miles-3miles distance from where my small colony is based, now due to the size of my colony will they make it this far to collect? or would it be best to try get permission on the furthest fields and try to move the hive up onto the field to help it build up?
My concern is the 3feet or 3mile rule when moving the hive, is this completely mandatory or can it be slightly bent on the max distance?


Sorry about all the question just tyring to think of ways i could help the colony build up.

Thanks
Regards
Ben

 

[BeeNice]

My advice, have you lifted the solid floor onto matchsticks to leave a gap so you have a flow of air, not a wind. If you haven't done this you should have. You say you have 3 frames of brood and 3-4 of stores, at this time of year that should be okay, although the sun is shining don't go messing around in the hive to much, they are building but are not into spring mode yet. Are the bees bringing in pollen, look at the comings and goings of the bees and see what is happening in the hive without diving in. Don't start moving them about, bees will find forage wherever, more than you can. My bees are going at the pussy willow like mad at the moment, 'you can't take a bee to OSR and expect it to drink!' or horses.
Lift the hive as I said and leave well alone, feed if you think they need it.
good luck
Steven

 

[Insy]

Hello,

Thanks for the quick response, atm the hive is sitting on a little hand build stand make out of scrap wood probably the depth of 1 and 1/2 pallets.
Last week i sat and watched them bring in pollen it was colours yellowish and like a brown/orange if i remember correctly, but compared to some hives ive seen recently the amount of pollen coming in looked very small compared to his hives.
Tbh i think 4 frames of stores most of it cap'd or being capped will do them fine until next inspection i think, i don't want to fiddle about with hive to much but then again i feel like im not doing enough to aid them through .

Thanks.

 

[BeeNice]

Its the time of year that everyone wants to play, leave alone the bees know what they are doing, I have hives in 3 locations and unless you have a couple of hives in one location and see what they are all doing at the same time, I think everything is okay. But all bees are different in nature some fly in the rain, some start early, some are later, some are nice some are horrid, with one hive you cant always tell whats right and whats normal to you not to the bees. I have hives within 1000 yards of each other and each apiary has a different routine when one lot is quiet the other is going full chat. If you have pollen going in all should be well? But you need to sort out any damp thats what kills the bees not cold.
Steven

 

[Finman]

.
Reason to moisture is that hive is too cold. Too much space for small colony.

That is why moisture condensates inside the hive. Adding ventilation makes things worse.

Restrict the bee room with dummy board so what they clearly can cover.
3 brood frames is quite good. When hive is warmer, bees make wider radius and I bet that after 3 weeks you have full box of bee.
Soon you have full box of brood and so on.

Add food. Pour one empty comb full of 1:2 syrup.

 

[Insy]

Ok so you would suggest removing empty frames that are no in use and replacing with some dummy boards?

Or will this not help?

 

[susbees]

Ok so you would suggest removing empty frames that are no in use and replacing with some dummy boards?

Or will this not help?

Yes. Frames of brood, one to grow into and a couple of frames of stores, one either side. And dummy the rest up.

 

[Finman]

.
Put extra wall. It is easy to make from insulating styrofoam board up to cover that heat does not escape.

I have only 50 years experince from that but it works.

Quite often colonies are like a nuc after winter. To get them bigger, it takes time.
Small colonies need more nursing than big ones.

 

[susbees]

Standard dummy boards are Kingspan for me Finman. It's a good point you make about remembering the colonies are much smaller and need restricting to get enough warmth to build up.

 

[Insy]

Ok so heres what im thinking let me know if all sounds good,

Remove all frames currently without stores or brood and leave 1 empty frame in for brood development and dummy board the rest.
(i have plenty of empty brood frames ill just build them and nail a thin strip of plywood to each side and maybe even place some insulation between the plywood.)
Then place polysterene boards all round the hive walls on outside and strap them to the hive for extra insulation.

Sound good?

 

[drex]

Hello,

i don't want to fiddle about with hive to much but then again i feel like im not doing enough to aid them through .

Thanks.

Hi Insy,

Which bit of Essex? Sounds like your hives are doing OK, they could be stronger, but I am guessing you have just nursed them through your ( and their) first winter.

Yes I would suggest you dummy up as you are suggesting now. They waste stores heating up space they are not using. An OMF will sort out the dampness, especially if you lift them up a bit higher too ( dampness is a killer).

No need for special treatment when you change the floor. Just lift off the BB ( dont need to open it). Move old floor , place new OMF in position and plonk them back on. If they find the OSR this year all well and good, but I would not worry about chasing it this year.

I had to resist the urge to fiddle, but you must remember that bees have been looking after themselves much longer than man has looked after them. Heat rises, so some insulation above your crownboard ( topboard) is essential IMO. For me the idea of insulation round the outside of a hive is just encouraging dampness in the wood. Sounds like you have enough stores at present. Mine are out foraging on any day warm enough.

I have yet to inspect them this year. Patience. They know what they are doing. My job is to ensure their home is adequate, and that I have left them or given them enough stores.

 

[Insy]

Im from the romford/brentwood areas myself you?

Yes but i knew they was a very small colony going into overwinter so ive been more and more concerned so i couldnt resist the urge in checking, im just hoping i can pull them through into summer .

So whats everyones opinion on the OSR ive found, is it worth chatting to the farmers or you recon i should just focus on the bees where they are?

Thanks
Regards
Ben

 

[Finman]

Hi Insy,
Move old floor , place new OMF in position and plonk them back on. Ie

mesh floor is the worst what you can do to your small colony.

Warning about rape is serious because it may fill the hive in few days.

Swear swear, moisture kills. It kills nothing. It never kill when hive has brood and hive temp is high.
You just stop heat leaking and mesh floor is a wrong way to stop heat leaking. swear swear.

 

[drex]

If they find it they find it, if not they will find something else. Small colony at present. Why stress them out with a move. They might not build up strongly enough to really work the OSR anyway.

I suggest you concentrate on just building them up naturally, keeping them healthy, and working towards a split(s) later on, so that you have more than just the one colony ( for insurance).

I live near the coast near Clacton.

Sounds to me as if you are doing well by your bees. Easy does it though.

 

[drex]

I see Finmans point of view, and I do not want to duel with him as he has vast experience. He is suggesting that an OMF will cool the hive, but heat rises, so make sure you have that top insulation.

 

[Finman]

.
I have now 1/3 of my hives these small colonies. Varroa has killed quite much bees from my clusters. They were all big when they started wintering.

I put that gingston board. Aluminium paper is good on surface.
Then electrict heating.
A small ventilation 1 cm x 3 cm (compare to mesh floor!)

Later when big hives have enough emerging brood frames, I add an emerging frood frames from bigg hives that small hives get that one box full.

Electrict heating helps that added brood do not die in new hive.

.

 

[Finman]

I see Finmans point of view, and I do not want to duel with him as he has vast experience. He is suggesting that an OMF will cool the hive, but heat rises, so make sure you have that top insulation.

what about windy weather? And 5 frame colony need only 3 square centimeter opening. Not 30 x 20 cm. Terrible!

If a 5 box hive has a mesh floor, why one box hive needs the same ventilation and in early spring?

It only needs those matchsticks.

 

[drex]

Finman, I feel that Insy is probably new to beekeeping, and I am trying not to confuse him.

Today it has been 10 degrees C here, the rest of the UK much warmer. Are you still under snow?

Insy, if you do not have an OMF yet, try the trick I have read on here of putting matches on top of the solid floor to raise your BB a few mm for extra ventilation, without producing a gale through the hive. Never tried it. My hives have all gone through the winter on wide open OMF's, albeit with a super of stores under the BB

 

[drstitson]

Insy - no need for external insulation.

frames as described, then dummy then space filled with blocks of kingspan/celotex (don't even need the wooden dummy if using insulation).
Hive could also do with a sheet of insulation (50mm) directly on top of the crownboard to stop condensation above the bees.

 

[Insy]

Well im very very lucky where i have my current hive there are a couple or maybe natural honey bee colonies somewhere in amongst the woodlands local, they always throw off 3+ Swarms each year in the barns/car park of the farm i have them on.

Last year i set up a bait hive and within 2 days i already had a swarm move in and that was very late into swarming season, so if need be i can set up my nucs and brood boxes about the land with more baits and attract them into them.

Only problem i havent done is tested for nosema which tbh i should of done already, thats on my to do list.

The hive entrance is blocked of it only has a small gap of about 3-5 centimeters the rest is blocked wood, im just going to add dummy boards and insulation and attempt to lift them off the floor more.

I was thinking of moving these bees to our garden this year and keeping them there as its more convenient for me, and there will be plenty about for them to choose from. I know theres honey bees aronud here also somewhere whether wild or someones colony because when i bruised a frame last year and left outside for 1-2 hours out of nowhere was at least 40-50+ honey bees constantly rubbing the brusied stuff.

DrStitson ill do that also what would u use for the insulation on top of the crownboard, tbh i should also remove the empty super i have sitting on top whilst im not feeding them as that might help a bit.