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It's worth a try, but he'll probably expect to have the last word!


Any idea why the Romans (Varro) would have thought thyme was important for bees, other than as a crop?
For this reason some bruise thyme in a mortar and soak it in lukewarm water, and with this sprinkle all the plots planted for the bees​

Thyme is one of the parental crops from which Thymol can be extracted, while other members of the genus also contain Thymol, Thyme is the one that also contains carvacrol. carvacrol seems to have anti viral properties when used in conjuction with other essential oils.

The Romans used Thyme for many things, its beneficial properties were well understood amongst herbalists at the time. Honey was highly prized and considered to hold special healing powers, i suspect someone noticed that the best honey with the desired properties came from hives who were mainly feeding upon Thyme.

Pure Thymol on its own it not as effective as the complete essential oil, there are subtle chemical interactions such as that with carvacol. It is also not the only natural essential oil to exhibit similar properties, it was simply the one that was tried and the first to give good results.
 
It is in no ones interest to see Bees decline to point of collapse,

But they are not are they? in fact the complete opposite is true.
This is just the usual sensationalist scare mongering from those wishing to make a fast buck.
 
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But they are not are they? in fact the complete opposite is true.
This is just the usual sensationalist scare mongering from those wishing to make a fast buck.
The first article quoted refers to bees other than honey bees as well in which case Dr Bell is correct though quite how research involving kept honey bee colony data correlates with impact on other pollinators remains to be explained here.
 
But they are not are they? in fact the complete opposite is true.
This is just the usual sensationalist scare mongering from those wishing to make a fast buck.
I am inclined to agree with the above.
I have been keeping bees for thirty five years, I have more hives now than when I started. Seven years ago I moved to my present address. I now have ten new beekeepers in my area, difficult to believe that bees are declining. Everywhere I go they are increasing. I can prove it, I have more bees than I had before. Most beekeepers will tell you the same.
E
 
It is not that they are rare, far from it. However in most cases the ones you would consider worthwhile are not open access to the general public and therefore expensive. .

If I can not access, it is zero to me.

Mostly scientist write to each other, but that is not practical.

When you read professor Nanetti's writings, they are practical and easy to understand.

I had once acces to one famous scientic pages, but there were not much to learn. I tired to read them.
Reports in Coloss papers are odd too. Not much practical value.
 
I am inclined to agree with the above.
I have been keeping bees for thirty five years, I have more hives now than when I started. Seven years ago I moved to my present address. I now have ten new beekeepers in my area, difficult to believe that bees are declining. Everywhere I go they are increasing. I can prove it, I have more bees than I had before. Most beekeepers will tell you the same.
E

By prove it are we talking anecdotal hearsay or do you have access to some paper i seem to have missed on this subject? While in every topic there are always those that decline to believe scientific evidence, another prime example would be the debate on global climatic change.

I am trained to evaluate the evidence put before me, based upon the many many studies and papers i have read and researched, i would respectfully suggest you are greatly misinformed if you believe the honey Bee decline is merely a scare story to sell product.

I feel this is much like saying many bacterial diseases are simple scare stories in order to sell more antibiotics. In the case of antibiotic resistance there are still people who will insist on being prescribed them despite not really needing them, these are the same people who simply refuse to believe we could once again be facing the pre antibiotic era.

All i can suggest is you read widely and follow the evidence, as scientist we conduct research and write what we find.

The paper i linked too was open access and reasonably easy to understand, it is a simple task to look for the figures and extrapolate the percentage that kept honey bees represent of these pollinators. If anything the real figure is actually higher, as i have mentioned before the true number of managed hives is unknown.
 
I read it and all I can see it saying is there is increasingly strong evidence that bees are in decline.......all I can say is that I haven't seen that, and to be fair most beekeepers would probably tell you the same. You talk by quoting papers, I talk only from experience. I don't claim to be clever or understand how scientist reach some conclusions but all I can say is that from my own experience bees that I keep are not dying any more now than they were 35 years ago. I don't intend to argue with you as I am sure I will lose and you will make me feel stupid so I shall say no more.
E
 
thing is, they all hang on the 'fact' of just post war colony numbers and the numbers towards the end of the last century. not taking into account that colony numbers were suddenly raised between 1940 and the early fifties due to the sugar issue. once rationing ended people stopped 'keeping' bees and figures went back to their normal levels.
This is looking more like an attempt to milk the government research funding cow. finding test kits we either already have or don't really need. To put more cash into the pockets of Bayer and the likes.
The pinch of salt is getting bigger by the minute.
 
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If I can not access, it is zero to me.

Mostly scientist write to each other, but that is not practical.

When you read professor Nanetti's writings, they are practical and easy to understand.

I had once acces to one famous scientic pages, but there were not much to learn. I tired to read them.
Reports in Coloss papers are odd too. Not much practical value.

Ok before i go through this line by line i am reminded of something you said about being involved in research and scientifically trained.

"If I can not access, it is zero to me.

I am sorry but this is simply plain arrogance and complete nonsense. If you had truly been scientifically trained and involved in research, to discount a peer reviewed paper simply on the grounds of not having the credentials to access it is..........breath taking.

"I had once acces to one famous scientic pages, but there were not much to learn. I tired to read them.

Again this does not fit with the claim of being involved with research, the fact you have been unable to fully grasp or understand the material you are reading, does not in anyway affect the value of the paper, i would respectfully suggest the problem is more to do with your lack of understanding rather than the quality of information within the paper. I also fail to see how you can come to the conclusion there wasnt anything of value for you to learn, when you intimate to not fully understanding what you were reading. In other words...how do you know there was nothing to learn if you failed to understand what was written?

Mostly scientist write to each other, but that is not practical.

Scientist do write to each other, however all scientist try to reach the widest audience with the research they have done, sharing of information is a key principle in science, the most effective way to do this is to publish peer reviewed papers in as high a profile journal as you can. As you will see from the papers i posted there is a bibliography in each, one purpose of citing work like this is so others can read the paper that has been refereed too, it also helps add weight to the paper you have written if you have used excepted methods previously published by others.

At this point i am inclined to think you have little to none scientific training and perhaps i misinterpreted your earlier statement in regards to being involved in research, i apologize if i have misunderstood what you meant by having been trained and "involved".

"Reports in Coloss papers are odd too. Not much practical value."

I find this disingenuous to say the least, i feel a more accurate statement would have been to declare the work of little practical value to yourself. The way you have written the statement reads as if you are the gold standard of what is and is not of value, again a somewhat arrogant statement considering your declared lack of scientific understanding.

No offense intended, however if you wish to challenge or debate in a scientific manner with me, i would greatly appreciate it if you could supply the normally excepted methods of doing so, such as peer reviewed data and papers, everything else would have to be considered conjecture and of little scientific value.

Regards
Dr J.Bell
 
Have you encountered this yourself?

Yes have encountered it a few times over the years, in some parts it is becoming a big problem, killing off lots of colonies, the BFA have recently carried out a survey of members to find out just how serious it has become for them in some areas.
 
I read it and all I can see it saying is there is increasingly strong evidence that bees are in decline.......all I can say is that I haven't seen that, and to be fair most beekeepers would probably tell you the same. You talk by quoting papers, I talk only from experience. I don't claim to be clever or understand how scientist reach some conclusions but all I can say is that from my own experience bees that I keep are not dying any more now than they were 35 years ago. I don't intend to argue with you as I am sure I will lose and you will make me feel stupid so I shall say no more.
E

From the single perspective of honey bees I'm surprised that Pott's et al Reading University 2005 wasn't quoted. The figures are not disputed. There is a similar reduction in hive numbers, according to several recent European surveys, in Eastern Europe and the former Czech republics as their populations move to a more industrial urban economy.
Whether that is offset by the increase in managed colonies else where, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, China (although they have significant other issues - hand pollination anyone?), I don't think has been determined.

So whilst an individual bee keeper may not experience a decline in hive numbers or an increase in death rates the aggregate across countries or regions paints a different picture.
From what Dave Goulson was inferring at last years honey show there are some interesting papers relating to overall pollinator decline due in the near future, and that excludes the recent French (if I remember correctly) paper.
 
I read it and all I can see it saying is there is increasingly strong evidence that bees are in decline.......all I can say is that I haven't seen that, and to be fair most beekeepers would probably tell you the same. You talk by quoting papers, I talk only from experience. I don't claim to be clever or understand how scientist reach some conclusions but all I can say is that from my own experience bees that I keep are not dying any more now than they were 35 years ago. I don't intend to argue with you as I am sure I will lose and you will make me feel stupid so I shall say no more.
E

No far from it, you have stated your case well.

If you would like it tightly distilled into the bottom line then the simple fact is, the agricultural need for pollination is not currently being met by the pollinators available, while i do have a paper to back this up i think it would be unnecessary to do so.

Some are lucky not to experience problems, however a simple read of the forums will show some of the problems others experience, it is human nature to consider our own little bubbles (myself included) as being representative of the wider picture, sadly this is often not the case.

To give an analogy.

Most people in the UK who have not widely traveled, will not have had direct experience of malaria. If it wasnt so well documented and reported on then using the above logic, it would fair for them to say malaria is not a problem, the reason being they have neither seen it nor do they know anyone else who has.

However to anyone who has been to various countries and seen the devastation malaria can cause, they would strongly disagree that malaria is not a problem. All i am trying to say is keep an open mind, do not fooled into thinking a crisis is being talked up for profit, there are simply too many independent studies being done by people with no 'dog' in the fight for this to simply be hype.

On a more personal level, if you are not experiencing problems and not seeing any problems around you, then as a scientist i congratulate you. Clearly you the fellow keepers in your area are doing a good job. I predominately hear about problems, this is after all my function! But i am always pleased to hear of those who manage to have healthy and happy hives, and those that never experience problems. I would be more than happy to be made redundant, if the reason was lack of disease or associated problems. I would go straight back to studying biofuel yeast! Not that we need bio fuels, it isnt as if we dont have an unexhaustible source of hydrocarbon fossil fuels is it :p

Regards
Jason
 
From the single perspective of honey bees I'm surprised that Pott's et al Reading University 2005 wasn't quoted. The figures are not disputed. There is a similar reduction in hive numbers, according to several recent European surveys, in Eastern Europe and the former Czech republics as their populations move to a more industrial urban economy.
Whether that is offset by the increase in managed colonies else where, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, China (although they have significant other issues - hand pollination anyone?), I don't think has been determined.

So whilst an individual bee keeper may not experience a decline in hive numbers or an increase in death rates the aggregate across countries or regions paints a different picture.
From what Dave Goulson was inferring at last years honey show there are some interesting papers relating to overall pollinator decline due in the near future, and that excludes the recent French (if I remember correctly) paper.

I posted the papers i had the quickest access too, while at home i dont have full access yet to our office network. I also felt due to some comments Potts might be a little over the top.

If i remember, i will post potts on here, off the top of my head i am not sure if this is open access? I may go check....... The other reason i declined to mention potts was because of one of the co authors being a member of my team, having seen some of the comments I can imagine how that would have looked!

regards
Jason
 
thing is, they all hang on the 'fact' of just post war colony numbers and the numbers towards the end of the last century. not taking into account that colony numbers were suddenly raised between 1940 and the early fifties due to the sugar issue. once rationing ended people stopped 'keeping' bees and figures went back to their normal levels.
This is looking more like an attempt to milk the government research funding cow. finding test kits we either already have or don't really need. To put more cash into the pockets of Bayer and the likes.
The pinch of salt is getting bigger by the minute.

Kindly forget i mentioned kits!! we are not making kits to sell or distribute! i simply asked if it was something that would be considered useful!!! It was an idea that popped into mind and nothing more.:hairpull::hairpull:

I assume you also think antibiotic resistance is simply an attempt to milk the cash cow? Considering the vast sums being pumped into that area and following your logic, i can see no other reason for it.
 
From the single perspective of honey bees I'm surprised that Pott's et al Reading University 2005 wasn't quoted. The figures are not disputed. There is a similar reduction in hive numbers, according to several recent European surveys, in Eastern Europe and the former Czech republics as their populations move to a more industrial urban economy.
Whether that is offset by the increase in managed colonies else where, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, China (although they have significant other issues - hand pollination anyone?), I don't think has been determined.

So whilst an individual bee keeper may not experience a decline in hive numbers or an increase in death rates the aggregate across countries or regions paints a different picture.
From what Dave Goulson was inferring at last years honey show there are some interesting papers relating to overall pollinator decline due in the near future, and that excludes the recent French (if I remember correctly) paper.

Having checked on my system it would appear the origanal publication is closed access (journal wise) however i managed to find a more recent publication in another journal (Journal of Apicultural Research 2010), this time it is open access and for those that wish to read it................

www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=957
 
Yes have encountered it a few times over the years, in some parts it is becoming a big problem, killing off lots of colonies, the BFA have recently carried out a survey of members to find out just how serious it has become for them in some areas.

What was your first impression of it? I ask because those I have seen witness it first hand in a bad way, all seem to have the same reaction. I am pretty sure having experienced it first hand you are aware of what I am talking about.

Regards
Jason
 
What was your first impression of it? I ask because those I have seen witness it first hand in a bad way, all seem to have the same reaction. I am pretty sure having experienced it first hand you are aware of what I am talking about.

Regards
Jason

It looks at first like a serious insecticide kill.

You would be surprised how often a problem goes unnoticed in a larger operation.

Those with large numbers of colonies (commercial operations) that have lost 50% of their colonies, do notice this.
 
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But Bell, a real scientist has no time to debate this way about things, which has nothing value to debate. He must have something better to do.
 
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But Bell, a real scientist has no time to debate this way about things, which has nothing value to debate. He must have something better to do.

I had hoped for a little more substance, you are however correct on your assumption of the value of my time. I can assure you i will resist wasting any more of it with you

Regards
Dr J.Bell
 

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