A new formulation of oxalic acid for Varroa.

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I realise I really have no place in saying what I'm about to say

so don't then

 

[mbc]

I realise I really have no place in saying what I'm about to say but I feel compassionate about Randy Oliver's experiments with the 1 to 1 oxalic acid and food grade glycerine 'strips'.
Randy Oliver does not seem to slouch in anything he does regards his experimentation and the fact that he has two sons with their over 1000 hives. His operation as a unit has to work.
Do all the anti new idea beekeepers think for a minute that he ( as a hands on commercial beekeeper) would waste his valuable time conducting the meticulous research he has done with the 'strips' if he thought that he was on to a looser?
I doubt that he would give a second glance at any idea he did not think was worth pursuing. He has as well a multitude of 'backers' who hope he comes up with at least something.
Although it's against the rules the strips are a no no despite the fact that anyone can spray oxalic acid directly onto bees they cannot put the product onto absorbent strips infused in food grade glycerine......
On the face of it the whole issue seems faintly ridiculous and especially as the Argentinian Doctor who has said the idea seems very efficient but he does not know why.
There are a few commercial beekeepers in the USA who are as they say - 'moonlighting'. Randy Oliver's results seem good but he points out firmly that his experimentation has government approval. So he says it works but don't do it..

I'm also a fan of Randy's work on this, there are a few threads on the forum where the late great hivemaker shared some of his experiences experimenting with extended release oxalic acid strips

 

[Micklemus81]

What a strange post
Of course you are entitled to your opinion but your ire is misplaced.
My post you quoted was 6 years ago. Things move on and opinions and ideas change.

I'd love to see how things have moved on. have there been any experiments of note in regard to the latest Randy Oliver video you tube 8th July 2022?
It seems even in the USA 6 folks have 'found the time' to comment on that erudite Biologists findings and even less here in the UK.

 

[Micklemus81]

I'm also a fan of Randy's work on this, there are a few threads on the forum where the late great hivemaker shared some of his experiences experimenting with extended release oxalic acid strips

Thank you for the reply. I will have a go at finding said posts because there are only a few in the USA who are breaking the rules to experiment with them most of those are having success as per Randy Oliver's findings. One chap with 200 hives says --- this may be the silver bullet that we have all been hoping for.
Incidentally this chap is putting a mat at the entrance so the bees have to wipe their feet on it as they enter..... a bit like a fastidious housewife but I can see where he's coming from?

 

[Micklemus81]

I'd love to see how things have moved on. have there been any experiments of note in regard to the latest Randy Oliver video you tube 8th July 2022?
It seems even in the USA 6 folks have 'found the time' to comment on that erudite Biologists findings and even less here in the UK.

It's a good things do change but I do notice that there still is a massive problem with varroa infestations.
I am disgusted that I bought a colony 11th June 22 that had towards 1000 mites on 10000 bees ( maybe less bees as they were on 5 shallow Nationals.) I should feel lucky seeing the chap on this forum who counted 3000 mites on his colony.(poor chap) It's a good job he had the initiative same as myself to clout the varroa and keep those bees alive.
This proves that many beekeepers (professionals at that do not do the right thing re killing varroa at least into small infestations.
In a nutshell = despicable lazy beekeeping. Let's hope through this type of Forum things really do change and those using these forums are not immediately abrasive instead of being constructive. Thank you

 

[Mint Bee]

It's a good things do change but I do notice that there still is a massive problem with varroa infestations.
I am disgusted that I bought a colony 11th June 22 that had towards 1000 mites on 10000 bees ( maybe less bees as they were on 5 shallow Nationals.) I should feel lucky seeing the chap on this forum who counted 3000 mites on his colony.(poor chap) It's a good job he had the initiative same as myself to clout the varroa and keep those bees alive.
This proves that many beekeepers (professionals at that do not do the right thing re killing varroa at least into small infestations.
In a nutshell = despicable lazy beekeeping. Let's hope through this type of Forum things really do change and those using these forums are not immediately abrasive instead of being constructive. Thank you

Are you deliberately trying to rile people on here with these ill-informed statements?

I'd venture that buying a nuc on super frames, without due diligence, would qualify as lazy beekeeping

 

[robmort]

.....
This proves that many beekeepers (professionals at that do not do the right thing re killing varroa at least into small infestations.
In a nutshell = despicable lazy beekeeping. Let's hope through this type of Forum things really do change and those using these forums are not immediately abrasive instead of being constructive. Thank you

Who is being abrasive here??

 

[magor]

One chap with 200 hives says --- this may be the silver bullet that we have all been hoping for.Incidentally this chap is putting a mat at the entrance so the bees have to wipe their feet on it as they enter..... a bit like a fastidious housewife but I can see where he's coming from?

bees feet use for tasty so am not sure d like wipe happening

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'd love to see how things have moved on. have there been any experiments of note in regard to the latest Randy Oliver video you tube 8th July 2022?
It seems even in the USA 6 folks have 'found the time' to comment on that erudite Biologists findings and even less here in the UK.

Movement includes the use of Oxalic scud impregnated strips and OAV. Some of us have been using nothing but for some years.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thank you for the reply. I will have a go at finding said posts because there are only a few in the USA who are breaking the rules to experiment with them most of those are having success as per Randy Oliver's findings. One chap with 200 hives says --- this may be the silver bullet that we have all been hoping for.
Incidentally this chap is putting a mat at the entrance so the bees have to wipe their feet on it as they enter..... a bit like a fastidious housewife but I can see where he's coming from?

It's a good things do change but I do notice that there still is a massive problem with varroa infestations.
I am disgusted that I bought a colony 11th June 22 that had towards 1000 mites on 10000 bees ( maybe less bees as they were on 5 shallow Nationals.) I should feel lucky seeing the chap on this forum who counted 3000 mites on his colony.(poor chap) It's a good job he had the initiative same as myself to clout the varroa and keep those bees alive.
This proves that many beekeepers (professionals at that do not do the right thing re killing varroa at least into small infestations.
In a nutshell = despicable lazy beekeeping. Let's hope through this type of Forum things really do change and those using these forums are not immediately abrasive instead of being constructive. Thank you

so are going to be constantly subjected to identical posts being copied and pasted ad infinitum on most threads on here?

 

[Micklemus81]

Are you deliberately trying to rile people on here with these ill-informed statements?

I'd venture that buying a nuc on super frames, without due diligence, would qualify as lazy beekeeping

Your reply says a lot about being very wary. It gives a warning that some would think it's not worth a carrot to join these forums in case someone replies like you. I noticed your previous replies see. To other subscribers.
The beekeeper is well respected and uses no chemicals his advert says.
On finding what I had bought within a week I could see there was a bad infestation.
How the hell does anyone know what bees have got on them until they are examined?
You are bound to know that so please explain what I should have looked for in any advert for quiet Buckfast bees.

 

[Micklemus81]

so don't then

You are no mystery to a bloke like me.

 

[Mint Bee]

Your reply says a lot about being very wary. It gives a warning that some would think it's not worth a carrot to join these forums in case someone replies like you. I noticed your previous replies see. To other subscribers.
The beekeeper is well respected and uses no chemicals his advert says.
On finding what I had bought within a week I could see there was a bad infestation.
How the hell does anyone know what bees have got on them until they are examined?
You are bound to know that so please explain what I should have looked for in any advert for quiet Buckfast bees.

believe you me my response was a lot tamer than my first draft or you deserve. I strive to call out BS when I see it. I'm not the new beekeeper acting the billy big b**l*c*s after a year of looking after 2 hives of bees

sounds like the TF beekeeper you purchased from is not in control of varroa and shouldn't be selling nucs. As for being respected? what is their background, history, feedback from other purchasers? did you check? If it was that bad an infestation you identified it within a week, why do you not return the bees as not fit for purchase rather than bitching about a 'respected' beekeeper? If unsure you ask to inspect the bees on seller premises before purchase. if the answer is no, then it would raise my concerns.

if you stick around then you will find this forum covers a wide variety of beekeeping style and is an invaluable source of learn and experience knowledge. Some of your initial posts demonstrate an lack of practical knowledge with opinions gain from the web IMO. there are some good bits of the web, but there is a hell of a lot of Sh*t out there

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Your reply says a lot about being very wary. It gives a warning that some would think it's not worth a carrot to join these forums in case someone replies like you. I noticed your previous replies see. To other subscribers.
The beekeeper is well respected and uses no chemicals his advert says.
On finding what I had bought within a week I could see there was a bad infestation.
How the hell does anyone know what bees have got on them until they are examined?
You are bound to know that so please explain what I should have looked for in any advert for quiet Buckfast bees.

Some of us have been around long enough to have learned that the phrases "experienced beekeeper" and "well respected beekeeper" don't mean much. Taking a colony without inspection from a keeper who brags "no chemicals" are used is an immediate risk of infestation problems and unfortunately you have bought such a colony. This doesn't necessarily mean all treatment free bees are heavily infested but the risk of heavy infestation is higher than those which are regularly treated.
"Chemical" is an undefined term which gets tossed around to support various entrenched opinions but it's so vague as to be useless. Is di-hydrogen oxide a chemical? Similarly is glucose or fructose a potentially harmful chemical? Your supplier may or may not be a competent beekeeper, I can't have an opinion on that without evidence but on balance I suggest you ought to take the advice offered in this forum with good grace instead of antagonizing those who have real experience and proven competence. If you don't like the message you're free to ignore it without disruption of the forum.

 

[Micklemus81]

believe you me my response was a lot tamer than my first draft or you deserve. I strive to call out BS when I see it. I'm not the new beekeeper acting the billy big b**l*c*s after a year of looking after 2 hives of bees

sounds like the TF beekeeper you purchased from is not in control of varroa and shouldn't be selling nucs. As for being respected? what is their background, history, feedback from other purchasers? did you check? If it was that bad an infestation you identified it within a week, why do you not return the bees as not fit for purchase rather than bitching about a 'respected' beekeeper? If unsure you ask to inspect the bees on seller premises before purchase. if the answer is no, then it would raise my concerns.

if you stick around then you will find this forum covers a wide variety of beekeeping style and is an invaluable source of learn and experience knowledge. Some of your initial posts demonstrate an lack of practical knowledge with opinions gain from the web IMO. there are some good bits of the web, but there is a hell of a lot of Sh*t out there

I'll reply once.. MINT -I wrote on a bit of paper who was very ignorant and Mint is depicted as be wary of this one. How the hell can your stupid suggestion to examine the nuc on the sellers property,------ with a magnifying glass.

 

[Mint Bee]

I'll reply once.. MINT -I wrote on a bit of paper who was very ignorant and Mint is depicted as be wary of this one. How the hell can your stupid suggestion to examine the nuc on the sellers property,------ with a magnifying glass.

plenty of consumer protection out there especially if you paid on a CC. Most nucs sold at auction are pre inspected by a bee inspection prior to being offered for sale, as a condition of sale. plenty of private sellers will let you inspect the bees if nothing to hide. If the infestation was that bad after a week of purchase to show DWV it would have been visible pre purchase.

I take it as a compliment that you feel you should be wary of me You could always answer the questions I put to you regarding the vendor?

 

[Swizz]

Thank you for the reply. I will have a go at finding said posts because there are only a few in the USA who are breaking the rules to experiment with them most of those are having success as per Randy Oliver's findings. One chap with 200 hives says --- this may be the silver bullet that we have all been hoping for.
Incidentally this chap is putting a mat at the entrance so the bees have to wipe their feet on it as they enter..... a bit like a fastidious housewife but I can see where he's coming from?

Hi, I watched Randy Oliver’s post’s last year and feel all beekeepers should watch them and share their thoughts. I personally was impressed with his findings. I bought the oxalic Varomorus fogger and having mixed results have now bought a simple oxalic vapouriser . Trickle method concerns me as bees can ingest and have issues. The slow release oxalic sponges or kitchen towel method should be assessed here I feel, as long as you do not have metallic queen excluder in. Even stainless excluders will corrode given enough time and even though the rust will not kill bees it will make a real mess of the surrounding area on brood frames, etc.
If I can ask, when it comes to tackling varroa prior to the queen laying the winter bee in early Autumn and you are wanting to use a treatment that takes weeks, how on earth do you get a massive colony, foraging for ivy as mine do, go into just the brood box cos you had to remove supers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If I can ask, when it comes to tackling varroa prior to the queen laying the winter bee in early Autumn and you are wanting to use a treatment that takes weeks, how on earth do you get a massive colony, foraging for ivy as mine do, go into just the brood box cos you had to remove supers?

Take supers off. Vape brood. Put supers back.

 

[Swizz]

Take supers off. Vape brood. Put supers back.

Yep! Thought that was my only option. I used apivar last year and it was very effective but I had to leave 2 hives with supers on simply for room and then discard them cos of residue which is costly. Also my kick off early in spring and need supers on pretty early so using apivar and back tracking 6 week plus 2 means opening brood box quite early . Any thoughts. Just relying on oxalic is a gamble. Never used Formic so would appreciate any thoughts on that thank you

 

[Wilco]

I'll reply once.. MINT -I wrote on a bit of paper who was very ignorant and Mint is depicted as be wary of this one. How the hell can your stupid suggestion to examine the nuc on the sellers property,------ with a magnifying glass.

It's a good idea to ask to inspect a nuc before committing to pay. Typically you would go mid to late afternoon and look at the brood and brood pattern which would likely give an indication of overall health of the colony. This would also give you an idea of the temperament of the bees which you could also factor in to your decision. You then wait until evening, seal it up and toddle off.

Varroa can be indicated by more than just seeing mites on a drop- another method to consider is to open a couple of drone cells and remove the pupae with tweezers to see if you find any varroa.

An honest question - the way you type and address some on here does not come across well. Are you aware?