A few questions to prepare for winter and next year.

[Zante]

I decided to feed the bees quite heavily with a super on. The year has been quite bad and they are unlikely to forage enough for the winter. I also decided to let them have a super as well as the brood box, to make sure they do get through my first winter by getting them off to a good start. I'm sure I'll get a better feel for how much to feed them, but I'd rather overdo it the first year.
Dadant brood + super, that's a lot of stores (don't worry, the QEs are already off)

I'm thinking that I might end up with super frames that haven't been emptied come spring. Am I correct in my understanding that if I nadir the super they will eat through that first?

Since the hives are a bit of an odd design I'm also considering the possibility that I might not be able to nadir the super (just trying to cover all bases). I have found a couple of other apiary sites and I'm planning to start off two nucs next year to populate the first one of these two.
I'm planning on taking three frames out of each current hive (out of ten) and put them in each of the two nucs I have ready for this. The hives will then get clean foundation to replace those three combs, and the nucs will get two sheets of foundation and a feeder each (six frame nucs).
If I have super frames of syrup left over from winter would it be a good use to get a six frame super for each nuc (they're fairly cheap at 11 euro each) and give them to the new colonies as stores to feed on?

Another question: if I'm not too worried about getting a crop from the new colonies in their first year, would it be ok to leave the queen in the old hive so not to have a brood break? I'd like to collect some acacia next year.
Or if I move the queen would that count as an artificial swarm?

If I find I have a lot of super frames left over from winter, is it worth extracting and storing for the next winter or is it better to just leave it in the frames?

 

[enrico]

1 you can nadir super and they will use it first
2 you can feed frames to nucs
3 that method is a split and not an As therefore doesn't matter which half the old queen is in
4 leave the frames as they are if capped, if not then watch it for mould or fermenting. Wouldn't bother extracting it.
E

 

[Zante]

3 So I'm guessing that won't make a difference in terms of swarming and I'll have to do some form of AS anyway.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Nadiring the super won't make them eat those stores first. if it's full and capped leave it on top.
A bit late for nadiring now - it's usually only done with part filled supers of unripe stores to encourage them to move it up above the brood and leave the shallow empty. OR put under early enough (empty if needs be) before feeding so that, as they fill up the space above the brood net gradually moves downwards and utilises the extra space afforded with the nadired super.
Personally I think a Dadant deep would hold enough stores for winter.

 

[Zante]

The super is only part capped at the moment, and the bees are still foraging, I think ivy has finally bloomed. Consider that here, this morning at 8 the outside temperature was 10 celsius, and during the day it goes into the mid twenties, so the season isn't quite over yet in that sense.

You're right, a dadant deep should be more than enough, but due to the drought I've had to feed the bees early. I was too worried about the bees going hungry and I didn't think of removing the super, so the "damage" was done.

I'm not too bothered to be honest, I can store the frames, and I have 6 more supers thanks to the old equipment the owner of the land said I can use. I still have to find my feet with this kind of evaluations and this year (consider that entire crops have been completely written off and we've had water rationing) wasn't the best to start with that.

Regarding the other part of the questions, do you think that a split as I describe would go anywhere towards swarm prevention? If not, what if I move the queen into the nucs once I see queen cells?
... or do I just go for the split and continue with swarm control as if the split had no effect?

 

[enrico]

I disagree. If the brood box is full of stores and you nadir a super of stores they will eat the super first. They store honey from the top down and in winter eat capped stores from the bottom up, however if the brood box has empty frames they will move the honey from a nadired super to fill the brood box. That uses energy in itself . Totally dependant on what the situation is in the brood box as to what will happen with nadired super
E

 

[Bakerbee]

Interesting read thanks zante for those questions. Im a first year keeper and pondered all those ideas myself. I decided on leaving my super on top and hoping any extra will be used before first flow of spring. I too am interested in replies regarding AS and prevention. Hopefully someone will answer them. Sounds as though conditions have been a challenge this year, fingés crossed for next