A different vaporiser question

[Magwat]

I want to use a vaporiser on my poly hives for the first time. I was planning on going under the floor so as not to risk melting the poly round the entrance.

My hives are Swienty about 6 years old so not the new design. The OMF is a perforated sheet and not the woven mesh that you usually get with wooden hives. The sheet has 3mm holes spaced 3mm apart so there is quite a bit of total sheet area between the holes. I am wondering if a lot of the acid is going to crystallize on the underside of the floor rather than going through. Has anyone used a vaporiser with this type of floor?

 

[Karsal]

Think your worrying to much. Yes a little does crystalize on any OMF. Just add a little more to your dose. It's surprising how much rises into the hive and coats the bees. I often see them come out onto the landing board white covered in crystals. They go back into the hive and this coating comes off inside the colony.

 

[JohnF]

Agree with above, if you use clear coverboard just lift the roof a bit till you see vapour

 

[Erichalfbee]

And when you get into the workshop make some wooden floors.
My Swienties sit on wooden floors, some with entrances underneath and all deepened to make vaping easy.....I'm not fond of poly floors except perhaps the Paynes

 

[Magwat]

Thank you, I probably am over thinking it. Holes are holes and something is bound to get through.
I don't mind the Swienty poly floors at all Erica. The bees have done a chewed variation round the entrance holes on a couple of them but I always keep the entrances small. For the winter I have abandoned the shallow poly roofs because of having to use an empty super for added insulation as the roof is thinner than the walls (a design flaw? I'm not a physicist). I got 8" deep wooden roofs in Maisies sale and put them on over a slab of insulation. Poly roofs will be back on for the summer.

I've got to design and construct something to slide under the floor for vaping but will consider some purpose made floors for next year.

 

[SDM]

I take a lithographic printing sheet with me.and slide it under the hives( only takes a second).
Then use 3g's of Oxalic acid Instead of 2 to account for the mesh.floor.

 

[Magwat]

My poly floors sit flush to the ground along the front edge but there are gaps at the sides and back - handy for hefting but not for vaping which is why I need to construct something to stop the vapour escaping sideways. I've got a spare floor in the shed so it should be easy enough to make something to fit (famous last words).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

People shouldn't get their knickers in a twist about the odd gap here and there. Do a test vape in the open air to see what happens to the sublimate - it rises up immediately - the stuff that comes out the sides/bottom is minimal and is after the whole hive is full of sublimate anyway.
Remember it's a 'broad brush' approach in essence and the 2.5g directions work the same for a large hive as a small one - so there's room for spillage.
And remember:
It's not the 'gas' that is the effective part of the treatment it's the crystals that get deposited all over the hive when the gas desublimates on cooling

 

[Gilberdyke John]

People shouldn't get their knickers in a twist about the odd gap here and there. Do a test vape in the open air to see what happens to the sublimate - it rises up immediately - the stuff that comes out the sides/bottom is minimal and is after the whole hive is full of sublimate anyway.
Remember it's a 'broad brush' approach in essence and the 2.5g directions work the same for a large hive as a small one - so there's room for spillage.
And remember:
It's not the 'gas' that is the effective part of the treatment it's the crystals that get deposited all over the hive when the gas desublimates on cooling

And the crystals are further spread around by the bees in the course of their normal activities.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And the crystals are further spread around by the bees in the course of their normal activities.

Which is why it's not a good idea to treat when it's well freezing outside and the bees are in a tight cluster

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Which is why it's not a good idea to treat when it's well freezing outside and the bees are in a tight cluster

Good point although reading some other discussions amongst the Facebook groups there's a growing number of individuals who are advising tearing frames apart and breaking the cluster. Not for me
There's also the consideration that condensed crystals will stay where they settle until something moves them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

LASI mantra

 

[Karsal]

Good point although reading some other discussions amongst the Facebook groups there's a growing number of individuals who are advising tearing frames apart and breaking the cluster. Not for me
There's also the consideration that condensed crystals will stay where they settle until something moves them.

You have over a half a million tiny feet walking around inside a hive constantly.
Do you really think crystals will stay where they settle for long?
People advising tearing frames apart and breaking the cluster?
Another load of tosh!!
Just let the bees get on with what they do best and don't over think things. They have managed for millions of years before we came along

 

[Millet]

Which is why it's not a good idea to treat when it's well freezing outside and the bees are in a tight cluster

Do they still cluster as tight in a poly or insulated hive. ? .

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do they still cluster as tight in a poly or insulated hive. ? .

Not in mine

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And the crystals are further spread around by the bees in the course of their normal activities.

Which is why it's not a good idea to treat when it's well freezing outside and the bees are in a tight cluster

Same with trickling actually - you need the bees to be active to spread the stuff around

 

[Erichalfbee]

People advising tearing frames apart and breaking the cluster?
Another load of tosh!!

Yes, I wonder why LASI keep droning on about this.
IF you have one of their super duper hygienic queens and
IF you plan on treating just the once a year you do need the colony absolutely brood free.
Most people do not have one of their queens and will be treating at other times of the year anyway......so they should stop and THINK!

 

[linoleum bonypart]

D.M states bees don't cluster in a poly until it is 0c outside

 

[Millet]

Not in mine

Mine do not seem to either from past observation looking through the open mesh floor.

 

[Karsal]

D.M states bees don't cluster in a poly until it is 0c outside

To be honest, I only have poly hives and used the clear crown boards under another wooden crown board with a matching feed hole. I have on occasions taken the super off and slid the wooden crown board to one side blocking the hole up and allowing me to see inside the hive through the clear crown board.
The bees don't seem to be in a cluster even on a frosty day and are very active wandering around the hive.
They do consume all the fondant and the hive does get lighter very quickly and needs checking regularly.
In spring they are up early, active and flying and the colonies build up quite quickly.
However I do notice condensation on the underside of the crown board along the top outer edges. They seem to cope with this and I don't use matchsticks.
It saves them going out collecting water!