3 in to 1

[DaveG23]

I have 3 weak hives:

1 commercial nuc, a cast swarm I found in a field, I assume the queen didn't return from a mating flight, they were given a virgin queen but no sign of her, so gave a test frame and they have 1 capped QC, due to emerge in 1 week. Small amount of bees.

1 national nuc, their queen died in the QC, small amount of bees

1 small swarm that just moved in to a commercial bait hive probably yesterday, probably a cast. Queen is there but looks small, probably unmated. No eggs, 3 seams of bees.

Commercial nuc & bait hive are about 10 foot apart. National nuc is 3 miles away.

What's the best way to unite the 3?

Timing wise should I wait until either the commercial nuc or swarm in the bait hive has a laying queen?

My preference is to put them in to the commercial nuc. As I understand they won't fight from 3 hives, but should I protect the queen?

Is it as simple as just putting the frames and bees in to 1 box?

Am I best to then move them 3 miles?

 

[Newbeeneil]

Put a sloping board up to your chosen hive and throw all three lots of bees at the bottom of the board. They will all march in without a murmur.
Provided you are sure there is only one queen she should be safe without protection.
No need to move them 3 miles.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I Agree, you could put a sheet under the board.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Uniting thee weak colonies will just give you a bigger weak colony.
If there are three you can just throw them in together as you say but order yourself a new mated queen to give them a chance and once you have dispatched the one queen and one queen cell you can re queen

 

[DaveG23]

Thanks for the replies. I will combine them in to the commercial poly nuc.

In terms of getting a mated queen, I have been looking but haven't found any Irish suppliers with any left, yet. So will have to rely on the queen from the recent cast swarm

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In terms of getting a mated queen, I have been looking but haven't found any Irish suppliers with any left, yet. So will have to rely on the queen from the recent cast swarm

You could always get one posted from mainland UK?

 

[0valillu]

What I use is a sheet of paper between boxes, so that the smells of the different colonies mixing until they pierce the papers.Then the queens will fight and nature will say ...
First of all, I would think if the cause of the decrease in the number of bees in colonies could be due to any of these causes: loque, varroa mites, water and nutrition. If they have an infection, it is most likely that you infect everything when doing the union of colonies.

Another option after the union of colonies, is to sacrifice queens,wait 5 days and introduce 3 broodscomb of all ages from a strong hive with good aptitudes and sanitary condition; you can ask a good beekeeper friend in your area. The closer the better, then in the transfer of the broodscomb, if it is far away; the most recent hatchling, the egg, may die. Above all, if there is enough bee to take care of it.


I hope it helps something
regards!

 

[Angry_Mob]

You could always get one posted from mainland UK?

Would require a health cert; I'm not aware of any UK supplier who actually posts to (Southern) Ireland and most want AMM which limits the field further.

 

[captain666]

You could always get one posted from mainland UK?

As far as I know, it's illegal to import any foreign honeybee queen into Ireland.

Ireland is the last (and only) bastion for Apis mellifera mellifera and it's very important we keep it that way.

You might like to search the Native Irish Honeybee Society (NIHBS) for more information.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As far as I know, it's illegal to import any foreign honeybee queen into Ireland.

Ireland is the last (and only) bastion for Apis mellifera mellifera and it's very important we keep it that way.

You might like to search the Native Irish Honeybee Society (NIHBS) for more information.

I have, I have quite a few queens from Jon Getty
But to say it's the last bastion of AMM is plain nonsense I'm sorry.
You have as many Buckfasts there as any other country.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

As you have 8 hives, you could combine the three weak ones to three stronger ones?

 

[captain666]

Please don't tell me I'm talking nonsense. That's rude for starters and fighting talk.

There are no Buckfasts anywhere never mind Ireland. All now heavily adulterated.

There are no Amm anywhere other than Ireland and perhaps the odd British apiary where a beekeeper managed to get a travelled Amm queen from an Irish friend. Good for one generation only as the next generation will be hybrids.

I used to post as a guest to the BBKA site for many years before being invited to join this one a few days ago. I'm a beekeeper of over fourteen years and I have done the intermediate exams (both practical and scientific) so don't belittle me.

Find someone else to bully.

Fred.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Please don't tell me I'm talking nonsense. That's rude for starters and fighting talk.

There are no Buckfasts anywhere never mind Ireland. All now heavily adulterated.

There are no Amm anywhere other than Ireland and perhaps the odd British apiary where a beekeeper managed to get a travelled Amm queen from an Irish friend. Good for one generation only as the next generation will be hybrids.

I used to post as a guest to the BBKA site for many years before being invited to join this one a few days ago. I'm a beekeeper of over fourteen years and I have done the intermediate exams (both practical and scientific) so don't belittle me.

Find someone else to bully.

Fred.

Hi Fred
I thought Buckfast were a hybrid and were widely sold in all their variations and that quality depended on the work put into them by the breeder.
Hivemaker sells bees he describes as Buckfast. Are they not what he says?

Google has quite a few Irish Buckfast beekeeping groups.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There are no Amm anywhere other than Ireland

You'd better break the news to Colonsay then
And Cornwall!

 

[captain666]

Hi Dani.

Buckfast was indeed a hybrid developed by Brother Adam (real name Karl Kehrle) and he was a Benedictine monk. he was a wonderful beekeeper and because he in error thought the European native honeybee, Amm, had been wiped out, went on to produce the Buckfast honeybee. Even as a child in Ireland I had heard about this bee. Lots more information on the web.

Unless all the original stock were artificially inseminated they would be heavily adulterated by now.

He looked everywhere for bees for his new hybrid, even searching in Africa.

However he did produce a nice bee for his goal was to get as close to Amm as possible.
The real problem for hybridisation in the U.K. was/is Apis Mellifera Italica imported queens as some beekeepers put honey yield over bee type.

I said 'in error' above, for he neglected to have a look at the then honeybee in Ireland which was still Apis mellifera mellifera.

There was some talk on the BBKA site a few years back saying there were still native bees in Devon or Cornwall. No scientific support was ever produce to support this.

The university of Galway and the university of Limerick did a nation-wide study of the honeybees in Ireland about three years ago and they concluded our bees are at least 98% genetically Amm.

I recall having a good debate on this topic with Roger Patterson* who accepted this study.

* Hope he's still alive and kicking.

Fred.

 

[captain666]

You'd better break the news to Colonsay then
And Cornwall!

Breaking your guts laughing again, I see.

You will see that I was aware of bees from that district. Yes, they are dark but until proven that doesn't make them Amm.

 

[captain666]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/env...h-honeybee-is-not-extinct-after-all-1.3243037
Says it better than I can.

Fred.

 

[DaveG23]

Thanks for all the reply's.

If anyone is interested, It is not illegal to import bees in to Ireland, as mentioned by AngryMob, a health certificate is required from within the EU, from outside the EU the bees have to go via a border post with specific facilities, e.g Frankfurt or Heathrow. DAFM - Import and Export of Bees

But even the NI breeders such as John Getty don't seem to post to Ireland.

At any rate I think I will leave buying some queens until next year, will be interested to see how well some Amm from breeders fair against my West Kerry mountain bees . Have enquired with Galtee bees to see if I can get some queens for next year.

Plenty of drones around, still drone larvae waiting to be capped in 2 hives I inspected today. As far as me and my bees are concerned, summer has just started (we hope)! Warm enough for the fuchsia to be producing for them today.

As far as I know there is one person on the peninsula who has buckfast, a beginner who bought them this year, they will of course be taken to a dark corner of an apiary to be re-educated But even this far west imports were once all the rage. There is a photo of bees arriving at the train station from either Italy or Holland, back in the days when Dingle had a railway. How much of that genetic signal remains, I have no idea.

My father in law sniffs his nose at bees from over the hill that splits the peninsula, too much of a stripe for him. I cant see the difference, but he has 40 years experience on me.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Dani.

Buckfast was indeed a hybrid developed by Brother Adam (real name Karl Kehrle) and he was a Benedictine monk. he was a wonderful beekeeper and because he in error thought the European native honeybee, Amm, had been wiped out, went on to produce the Buckfast honeybee.

Thanks Fred
I knew that
I have tried all sorts of bees and I do have these orange stripey ones.
So what are we to call them?
Not-Buckfast or Pretend-Buckfast?
What about all the research that Arista does into VSH in this hybrid?

Oh and RP is alive and well and running a Dave Cushmans site

 

[captain666]

<Have enquired with Galtee bees to see if I can get some queens for next year. >

I think your best bet is to join NIHBS first who are closely associated with Galtee Amm queens. I think you get 'first shout' if you support NIHBS.

I have had queens from them in the past and found them excellent.

Such queens are in very high demand, so I suggest you join NIHBS now and put your order in for 2021 as ordering next year could be too late.

For others, Galtee as far as I know will not export their queens, instead they focus on improving the Irish native stock.

Fred.