2nds quality

[luap321]

is there a standard for 1st grade and 2nd grade
i thought first cedar was knot free 2nd cedar was with knots but not at any near joints or structal points or knots falling out and also could be British

i got these at a good price online but thought they would be better and dont know if i should of expected them to be like this
i was a bit Shocked to see them like it but dont want to pay return postage for a big box i feel like some of the 2nds were ok but some should be scrap

 

[ericbeaumont]

good price online

Tempting, but the garden path of those three seductive words leads straight to the quicksands of disappointment.

Maisemore hive seconds are very good (I use nothing but their frame seconds).

If you mean to assemble your boxes, do so quickly because wood will shrink and they'll be even more of a nuisance.

 

[luap321]

Tempting, but the garden path of those three seductive words leads straight to the quicksands of disappointment.

Maisemore hive seconds are very good (I use nothing but their frame seconds).

If you mean to assemble your boxes, do so quickly because wood will shrink and they'll be even more of a nuisance.

i have 2 supers and 2 lifts for wbc one of each is lovely if you had brought these from Maisemore where you normally go would you of thought you had what you paid for or would you think this is not what i was expecting and com-plane

 

[luap321]

i have no instructions and a packet of nails missing i know its not rocket science but i paid money for it i dont know whether to glue and nail or just nail i dont know if there is a set distance to fit the lip in the lift or push it up till its tight make it even and i dont know how much clearance the slides need on the porch

 

[Ian123]

is there a standard for 1st grade and 2nd grade
i thought first cedar was knot free 2nd cedar was with knots but not at any near joints or structal points or knots falling out and also could be British

i got these at a good price online but thought they would be better and dont know if i should of expected them to be like this
i was a bit Shocked to see them like it but dont want to pay return postage for a big box i feel like some of the 2nds were ok but some should be scrap
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I like seconds and am more than prepared to accept the odd knot I normally get them from Thornes or maismores. I recently had a couple of bottom bars machined incorrectly and they immediately replaced, also 1 batch years ago that had quite a lot of soft white wood..But they are the only boxes I’ll buy!
Few knots actually fall out and if during construction you liberally apply glue to suspect ones you should have no issue.
I’d clean any rough edges on the joints with a Stanley and the knot by the (teeth) you’ll probably want to pre drill the nail/screw in that area. Knots pop and bend screws/nails if you hit them!

 

[drex]

Never had a problem with Thornes seconds. Never bought firsts. Those do look a bit rougher but perfectly functional. The bees won't care. You get what you pay for

 

[Wilco]

Only supplier I've had poor quality seconds from thus far is Bee Equipment. When I contacted them they were very good and replaced the dodgy part very quickly.

Those knots are probably fine. I presume you won't disassemble the boxes so might as well glue and nail if you're worried but use an exterior quality glue. Toolstation do a good one.

 

[luap321]

Only supplier I've had poor quality seconds from thus far is Bee Equipment. When I contacted them they were very good and replaced the dodgy part very quickly.

Those knots are probably fine. I presume you won't disassemble the boxes so might as well glue and nail if you're worried but use an exterior quality glue. Toolstation do a good one.

i have guerrilla and the blue water proof pva but i might go to tool station and get a toffee hammer i have always binned or given away any little hammers less than 16oz but now with bee equipment i see a use for them

 

[W0otz]

I'm going to hazard a guess and say Thornes - the seconds boxes I've had from them have generally been rougher than the ones from Maisemore. That said the only piece in your photos that would concern me is the bar with the big knot in it, but even then I'd try and get some glue in/around the knot and live with it - it looks a simple enough piece to replace if it does fail.

Pre-drill holes if/where there are knots, get some wood filler in case of gaps, enjoy the savings.

 

[Nick Lang]

I would agree with much of the comments above...I found Maisemore's seconds to be very good. I have about four or five complete National hives from Maisemore....and two from Thornes....the Thornes boxes were pretty good (Maisey's were slightly better)...I thought the National (budget) second floor was poor...and I vowed never to buy those again.
I didn't like bee-equipment.....they messed me around on an order and made me wait about three months.... wouldn't order from them again.
Please wait for the sales though...you'll save a fortune!
And deffo join a local club or find a mentor who will take you in and help you....I've made a few mistakes that a good (available) mentor would probably have helped me avoid.....I'm in my third year...so fall into the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category...but take things slow and steady and you should be good
and welcome to a very interesting hobby

 

[ericbeaumont]

made a few mistakes that a good (available) mentor would probably have helped me avoid

Better to make your mistakes than those of a mentor, whose methods and advice can be out of date or seriously off-piste.

Your mistakes, your successes, your experience, your progress.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I wôuld be surprised if the box came from either Thornes or Maisemore as the quality of machining looks extremely poor.
I've always found Thornes boxes to be better than Maisemore but I guess that's just preference and would certainly not use Bee Equipment after my experience of their service.
The wood does look a bit ropey but nothing my bees couldn't live with and some glue could sort out.
I agree with the comment about sales, definitely the best place to pick up a bargain.

 

[sarahcorlett2566]

How interesting! They look far worse than the seconds I have purchased. I bought two Bees on a Budget hives from Thornes and they were almost perfect - no strategically placed knots and generally neat and fitted together well. I then bought two more hives - Western cedar seconds individual components (also from Thornes) and one was really good - fitted well and lovely quality wood (much better than the BOAB) and the other was very poor - didn’t fit together well, knots in important places, ends not complete - not as rough looking as yours though. It’s fine now but there were bows and gaps. I’ve never bought a full price Western box so may just be being picky. I’ve just bought two flat pack Western cedar firsts) supers from Old Castle Farm hives but haven’t opened them yet.

The other comments are right though, the bees don’t care about the cosmetics, as long as it is water tight and sturdy it will be fine and a bit of sanding and treating and they will probably be fine.

Interestingly I bought some foundation from both Thornes and Old Castle Farm Hives and the difference in colour was very noticeable - much darker golden colour with the latter and much paler yellow for the former. Don’t know if that’s important.

 

[Ely]

I recently got some really decent 2nds for £15 each at bee equipment

 

[Swarm]

How interesting! They look far worse than the seconds I have purchased. I bought two Bees on a Budget hives from Thornes and they were almost perfect - no strategically placed knots and generally neat and fitted together well. I then bought two more hives - Western cedar seconds individual components (also from Thornes) and one was really good - fitted well and lovely quality wood (much better than the BOAB) and the other was very poor - didn’t fit together well, knots in important places, ends not complete - not as rough looking as yours though. It’s fine now but there were bows and gaps. I’ve never bought a full price Western box so may just be being picky. I’ve just bought two flat pack Western cedar firsts) supers from Old Castle Farm hives but haven’t opened them yet.

The other comments are right though, the bees don’t care about the cosmetics, as long as it is water tight and sturdy it will be fine and a bit of sanding and treating and they will probably be fine.

Interestingly I bought some foundation from both Thornes and Old Castle Farm Hives and the difference in colour was very noticeable - much darker golden colour with the latter and much paler yellow for the former. Don’t know if that’s important.

Foundation colour can vary quite a lot.

 

[luap321]

I recently got some really decent 2nds for £15 each at bee equipment

i have just been there not far from me i really like them all very helpful especially the old boy i could not work out if he was the store man or the owner but he knew what was where and was very busy and still helpful done me a great deal on a coat and 1st quality 14x12 frames for £16 i thought was a very good price i also got a national floor with landing area in pine with a draw as they had sold out of cedar .
they have a sale on at the moment from what i can make out very good prices

 

[Ian123]

Interestingly I bought some foundation from both Thornes and Old Castle Farm Hives and the difference in colour was very noticeable - much darker golden colour with the latter and much paler yellow for the former. Don’t know if that’s important.

Foundation colour from all suppliers will vary from even their own batches. The bees won’t care!
Most of the smaller suppliers buy from the bigger companies(even some of the larger)anyway. So it’s often the same product!

 

[Nick Lang]

Bee equipment....had twenty frames of wired foundation from them.....took ten out ...they broke into about a hundred piece....all totally brittle....useless....lesson learnt....avoid those guys

 

[luap321]

Bee equipment....had twenty frames of wired foundation from them.....took ten out ...they broke into about a hundred piece....all totally brittle....useless....lesson learnt....avoid those guys

as your in wales you got c wynne jones there they are very cheap have you tried there foundation i did read some were it does not travel well, i got some from both places none broken that i know of not tried fitting it yet wounder if it would be best left in the airing cupboard then try fitting it i dont have any spare so dont want to break mine cant afford any more im all bee ed out this month

 

[SWEET]

c wynne jones - great service and kit