2 Frame Nucs

[Roola]

Hi, I've been doing some reading on Nucs and saw on cushman's that Roger Patterson advocates the 2 frame nuc for making increase.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/twoframenuc.html

I was wondering who else on here uses or has used this method and to what success?

 

[Tom Bick]

Similar in that I try to make up a couple of dummied down 5 frame nucs with queen cells from swarming hives each year. I have also cut away queen cells from the face of combs and successfully attached them to combs in a nuc. It’s a nice simple system that gives you a spare queen that has the room to expand and if not used can go on to become a good colony but in most cases they are so important and often used.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Hi, I've been doing some reading on Nucs and saw on cushman's that Roger Patterson advocates the 2 frame nuc for making increase.

I usually use a bit more brood than one comb, but I don't see why Roger's method won't work. As long as there are enough bees for a viable cluster to care for the brood.

One question I do have about something Roger says...

>>Add a good frame of food next to it. If there is any brood on this frame I only like to see it on one side, which I put next to the frame of brood. This frame can come from another colony, but it will need the bees shaken off it.<<

Why does one have to shake off the bees? I realize what he's saying...he doesn't want the bees to come from multiple colonies. I make hundreds of nucleus colonies with brood and bees from a mix of donor colonies and nucs, and have seen no issues.

Has anyone else seen problems when the bees in a starter come from multiple sources?

 

[mbc]

Has anyone else seen problems when the bees in a starter come from multiple sources?

Our changeable weather does tend to invite more fighting between mixed bees than in more settled climes, but generally no, plonk em together and hope for the best seems to work without any noticeable trouble on most occasions. Once you have seen casualties from fighting from occasions when the bees just didnt want to play, for whatever reason, I see the sense in advising not to mix them.
I like to have bees exposed to the light and mixed from more than two different sources to minimise losses from fighting.

 

[Tom Bick]

I wonder if Roger is trying to perhaps reduce the chance of robbing by not having to many flying bees returning to multiple hives especially if the nuc is to remained in the same apiary.

 

[itma]

A 'preliminary' shake, a few yards away from the donor hive should only leave non-tribal nurse bees attached to the frame, which should not go looking for trouble. However, the other frame(s) would also need a similar "dislodge the flying bees" shake before being put into the nuc.


I'll admit to liking the "just split it and take half of them 3 miles away" method of nuc-formation.

 

[MuswellMetro]

i have madethree frames mixed nucs with a single frame from from each of three hives without any problems but assume they are so confused whose hive is is that they dont fight

if i was going to make just two frames i would spray both with lavender water (or similar)

 

[mbc]

i have madethree frames mixed nucs with a single frame from from each of three hives without any problems but assume they are so confused whose hive is is that they dont fight

if i was going to make just two frames i would spray both with lavender water (or similar)

Yup, seem to remember "mix bees in threes" and its always worked for me.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Our changeable weather does tend to invite more fighting between mixed bees than in more settled climes, but generally no, plonk em together and hope for the best seems to work without any noticeable trouble on most occasions.

Our weather isn't always the best for the job that needs doing...just like yours can be. Sometimes you have no choice but to deal with the weather and do the work.

Making up mating nucs in this kind of weather isn't much fun, but I don't see any fighting among the bees.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA3yiNoAh4o

 

[Chrisfnvs]

Great clip Micheal, nice calm bees what Queens do you run ? i know you have probably mentioned it before in one of your clips, i think you mentioned local mongrels but what were the original strains Chris

 

[Michael Palmer]

It was so long ago when I used to buy queens. Lots of Texas Buckfast in the 90s because Acarine losses were new to us and BF was the only strain with proven resistance. Then had some major re-queening to do because of the chalkbrood infection that developed in my bees at the end of that decade. Used Carniolans that had been selected for hygienic behavior, using liquid Nitrogen. Wow, did those bees ever clean up chalk...and fast!.

After that, I've been raising most queens from my stock, with the addition of various breeding stocks from others. Started using VSH breeders from Glenn in '04 to get that trait into my bees, and have traded other breeders, queen for queen.

Most of what I get from others throws good queens...but for the temper. The II queen breeders must never put the daughters in production colonies to see the results. Just cross two favored lines using II, and call the resulting daughters "breeder queens". Their temper is atrocious. Then it takes a few years to calm them down.

So that's pretty much what I do. I wish I could bring in some stock from your area, but I guess that will never happen.

 

[Chrisfnvs]

Never say never Michael laws always change sometime or other

 

[Michael Palmer]

Well, when the ship comes in...I'll be at the airport.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Great clip Micheal, nice calm bees...

I just remembered the day. There were two groups to divide. The video is mostly the first group. All nice quiet bees. The second group little devils. Even the new help noticed it immediately and asked what the problem was with those bees.

Typical of II queens from outside my apiary.

 

[pargyle]

Nice looking bees Michael ... very well behaved and some really nice frames of brood as well ...

I noticed some gaps between the comb and the sides of the frames ... do you use foundation ?

 

[Tom Bick]

Mentioned foundation in the video.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I noticed some gaps between the comb and the sides of the frames ... do you use foundation ?

I do use foundation. I haven't got the time for foundationless.

When the bees need room in the mating nucs, they need it now. I've seen them draw foundation incredibly fast. We put a mini of foundation in a crowded mating nuc, and had to back in it within an hour. The comb was half drawn and there were eggs in the cells.

I've never gone foundationless, so I don't know how fast they'll draw comb in that plan.

 

[pargyle]

Mentioned foundation in the video.

That's OK if the sound on your laptop works ... intermittent fault. sometimes it does ... sometimes it don't !!

 

[Hivemaker.]

That's OK if the sound on your laptop works ...

And the film as well..lol... then you could see the frames of foundation.

 

[farbee]

Mike,

So have I got this right?

II queens tend to be bad tempered. Is this down to the genetic crosses or the II process itself?

If so do people only use II for breeding purposes and not for producing of queens for honey production.

Sorry if this is a basic question but this is all way beyond my experience but do find it interesting.