14 x 12 - what's your opinion??

[Toffeesmum]

Hello again all, Am considering purchasing some 14 x 12 hives, second hand. We are total neebies and booked onto the Shropshire BKA course in March, but would like your general view on this hive style before making a decision on the purchase.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[clv101]

Hello. You should have a look at this thread: http://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22281

...where the pros and cons of 14 x 12 hives were discussed at length.

 

[itma]

There are many threads discussing 14x12's.

I am a proponent.

But I am also a proponent of the idea that beginners shouldn't buy any hive until they have handled that type of hive (and at least one other) when stocked with real live bees.
And usually beginners aren't in the best position to critically examine (and value) specific items of used equipment.

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

I like them and use them, what was the question again...

 

[For want of a better word]

IF I was starting over I would use Langstroth's Pollies !

 

[user 6228]

From a thermal point view a smaller roof area is better. A tall narrower nest is more efficient

 

[Neils]

I inherited a big pile of national kit so in some respects going 14x12 made sense for me.

I've invested enough since that I feel tied to the 14x12 but I don't necessarily feel its my best choice as perhaps as once did.

A double brood system gives you a lot more flexibility compared to the simplicity of a single brood box.

As much as I feel that nationals these days are too small for a single brood management style it gives you a lot of options and you can convert to 14x12 later if you want to give it a go.

I think you need to weigh up options. you can start with nationals, go double brood if necessary, see if that suits you and try 14x12 with little expense. Compared to switching from national even to commercial, but especially any other hive type.

Once you go down the route of 14x12, or any other brood frame for that matter, you have started to put yourself into a corner. At least with the 14x12 you have a transition route in either direction.

If you're new I'd suggest going with whatever is most used around you first and seeing how it goes first. National kit will always get a fair price, non national may depend on whether anyone else around you happens to use it and fancies offering you a fair price.

That said, generally I like the simplicity of the 14x12. It gives the majority of my bees ample room in a single brood box and I feel is reasonable dimensions for a decent brood best and stores.

 

[Polyanwood]

As a beginner it is best to have hives the same as or compatible with your local bee buddies, then if you need a frame of eggs or to borrow some kit you can.

It might be a false economy to buy second hand, but if you do, you must make sure you give the boxes a good scorching to disinfect.

 

[oliver90owner]

At least with the 14x12 you have a transition route in either direction.

Nellie,

Not sure what you mean by this?

All but one of my 14 x 12s are 'deeps plus an eke', so have the option of going back to deeps for about a twenty note per hive. Not that I have any intention of doing that at the present time.

 

[Summerslease]

I started on nationals only four years ago and have moved to 14x12s. There are many pros and cons as you will find out, but lots of beeks find the national brood box on its own too small for their bees. Beekeeping is expensive at the begining as you need quite a lot of kit. If you can get the hives at a good price I'd go for it. After that, there are many experts on the forum who will help with any issues that come with your first bees.

 

[Moggs]

Can we assume that your choice is between national and 14x12? Other formats are available!

I use 14x12 and much prefer them over nats, primarily to suit more prolific queen traits (it had been argued that nationals were better suited to the old British bee that was quite happy to brood on 8 or 9 frames),

However, they are obviously much heavier frames and manipulation of many hives in a given day may result in a case of 'beekeepers' back'!

The frames are also more prone to collapse when old and heavily laden, if not turned correctly on inspection.

Langstroth certainly figures highly in my list of alternatives.

 

[itma]

If anyone gets a case of "beekeepers back" from lifting a 14x12 brood frame out of a brood box on a sensible stand ... well ... I just hope they never have to lift a full honey super from ground level!

A complete 14x12 hive is easily moved (should it be required) by two people.
Its best not not tackled alone.


The question raised in my mind by the original post was not "are 14x12's worth having" (because the answer is obviously 'yes'), but rather "how wise is it for anyone to buy any secondhand hives BEFORE starting their intro course"?

Secondhand hives can be a bit of a minefield for the unwary.
Being extremely wary and taking an experienced friend to view them is much more important than the style of hive.

 

[Moggs]

If anyone gets a case of "beekeepers back" from lifting a 14x12 brood frame out of a brood box on a sensible stand ... well ... I just hope they never have to lift a full honey super from ground level!

Perhaps. But my creaking vertebrae are often testament to the amount of work in manipulating 100 of them over a weekend!

 

[Cazza]

If there are two of you as your "we" suggests then I would go 14x12. If it's just you and your back is like mine, then don't. I cannot lift more than a national brood. I have to be very careful and wear a lifting belt. Beekeeping is a solitary hobby for me so I don't want to involve anyone else.
Cazza

 

[Toffeesmum]

Thank you for your comments

Well, the deed is done. Before we took the plunge, we got an experienced beek friend to check the items for sale and especially due to the price, gave us the thumbs up (price was exceptionally good for what was offered due to its location remoteness AND the seller gave us lots of extras which were not included in the sale info)

Okay, we're new to the hobby, as everyone was once upon a time, however, we're not stupid enough to buy something which is rotten and/or rank. The hives are practically new only used for 2 seasons as the seller's personal circumstances have changed. We are VERY pleased with our purchase and can at least familiarise ourselves with the equipment as well as get used to handling them, once we've sterilized/blow-torched the insides.

Thank you again

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I know next to nowt, having kept bees less than a year.

But having taken the temperature of the Forum this time last year, I went for 14 x 12. I've found that to be fine.

In contrast, I'm responsible for a second hive, with a very experienced mentor who prefers the standard brood box - on which I put a super in the autumn to create a brood-and-a-half.

As a newbie, I've found the second much more problematic in terms of not being sure where the queen is - and causing her to fly off as a result of poor handling. (She came back, thank goodness!) I also, in my inexperience, find it harder to keep in my head, the shape and extent of the brood and stores.

I'm sure both of those deficits will be remedied by time and experience, but for now, 14 x 12 are my BB of choice; I'll be getting an eke to convert the current standard deep.

Dusty

 

[youngyoungs]

Like Dusty, I admit to having little experience by comparisons with others, but having worked with standard Nationals and double brood in other hives, I too opted for 14x12.

1 year on, it is true that the frames are larger and heavy when full of stores, but you do have to make a choice sometime and you have made yours.

It sounds like you have taken plenty of advice, and got yourselves a bargain. Enjoy!

 

[itma]

... Okay, we're new to the hobby, as everyone was once upon a time, however, we're not stupid enough to buy something which is rotten and/or rank.

The danger is actually in buying something that "isn't quite" standard, or inaccurately (or perversely) assembled - perhaps with the beespace incorrectly set.

Congratulations on your purchase!
I expect you to be pleased with your choice.
14x12 is a very sensible format for the UK hobbyist.
Don't be concerned about getting bees on standard national frames - its very easy to move them across onto the 14x12 frames.

I don't know exactly what you may have bought, but (as usual ) I'd suggest that a nice see-through cover board is a wonderful addition.

 

[Tim1606]

If anyone gets a case of "beekeepers back" from lifting a 14x12 brood frame out of a brood box on a sensible stand ... well ... I just hope they never have to lift a full honey super from ground level!

A complete 14x12 hive is easily moved (should it be required) by two people.
Its best not not tackled alone.

I made this and it works a treat.

 

[pargyle]

I made this and it works a treat.

Very clever ... so, as you lift, the bottom rail actually grips the hive tighter ? There must be lots of uses for a device like this ... I have wooden planters that are the devil of a job to lift even with two people ... and back bent lifting is a sure way to cause back injuries.

I think I will be making one of these ... or perhaps even two or three different sized ones.

You should patent the idea ... oh dear, too late ! In the public domain ...