12x14 wood or poly

[JKWebber]

As a new bee keeper with a single colony in a wooden national hive (brood and half at moment), with the intention to try and create a second colony next year,
and taking into account I live at the coast in North Tyneside, I would appreciate your comments on the following.

If you were starting off or buying new, would you go for the national 14x12 jumbo brood or double brood, and would you go for polystyrene or wood.

Sorry if this seems a bit basic but I look forward to your comments.

John

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Hi John, If I was starting out, I would seriously consider a Commercial brood box!

(Currently I use Nationals - going double brood when needed. I have a couple of 14 x 12's and I'm not sure yet whether I like them).

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

14x12s, and would seriously consider the (supposedly) soon to be available poly offering from Paynes, otherwise wood.

Commercials another option worth considering, but having only one colony you may prefer the level compatibility with other keepers in your area. There have been one or two discussions re 14x12s v Commercials on this forum worth reading.

Brood and a half is a pain (IMO).

 

[oliver90owner]

Down here at the extreme south of Lincolnshire, I run single 14 x 12s which overflow to a shallow at times (in fact usually, as I avoid queen excluders if possible). The next alternative up from the single jumbo is the 'brood and a half', which, for me, is too many frames all season, or (next up) a double deep brood most of the season. I would not go double brood with a 14 x12.

I have trouble squeezing them down to one box, quite often, for wintering, but usually get there eventually.

The commercial is virtually the same as a 14 x 12, size wise (a little bigger if the extra frame is squeezed in), so that might be a choice if you were wanting to go to a hive with short lugged frames and different frame length. Personally, I can't imagine any other advantage over the 14 x 12 (apart from slightly less-deep frames) and the brood nest may be less than the ideal shape (spherical?). It does seem to be particularly popular in and around Essex, but that may have been because the long lugged jumbo National frame was simply ignored for many years.

Most of my 14 x 12s are based on the deep National box with a simple conversion eke under (allows one to change back to deeps if one finds they actually preferred an alternative, like double brood), so means old kit can still be used. 14 x 12 frames are as 'cheap as chips' in the 'seconds' sales, but commercial frames are often unavailable in the sales.

I am just trying out a poly hive and expect it to perform well - and possibly better than my timber Nationals. We shall see. I went the M*dern Beekeeping route, so one fewer frame, but they do appear to brood right up to the hive walls in poly. No poly Commercials at the present time and probably unlikely to be any, I would think. Being so much further rnorth would make the poly benefits more noticeable and many beefarmers extol the virtues of poly.

Regards, RAB

 

[SteveJ]

I started on nationals and did consider going to commercials. After handling some commercial frames at the association apiary I found the lugs where to small for my large hands and didn't feel safe handling the frames.

So I ended up on 14x12 and found those a lot easier to handle.

SteveJ

 

[Winker]

I have pre ordered 2 Poly 14X12 from Paynes, which im going to keep in my garden as i dont want the poly hives stolen, i have 2 timber 14X12 which are on an out apairy with 3 nationals. If the polys do as well as i hope, i will move everything over to poly next year

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I have pre ordered 2 Poly 14X12 from Paynes

Looking forward to hearing first impressions

 

[Hivemaker.]

I have pre ordered 2 Poly 14X12 from Paynes, which im going to keep in my garden as i dont want the poly hives stolen, i have 2 timber 14X12 which are on an out apairy with 3 nationals. If the polys do as well as i hope, i will move everything over to poly next year

Does that mean you will only ever keep your bees/poly hives in your garden when you change over,for fear of them being stolen.

 

[itma]

Personally, I'd rather inspect bigger brood frames rather than twice as many brood frames, so I'm looking to eke-upgrading to 14x12 next year. And thinking of Paynes "interoperable with wood" products for future purchase.
No rush ... hmmm.

Aesthetics has a lot to do with whether or not poly is OK for you.
Plastic hives may be functional, but they aren't normally considered decorative!


Not sure why plastic might be thought more nickable? A touch lighter, yes. But they are cheaper (less valuable) and brand-newly-available models (like Paynes Nat range) are going to be obviously standing out for a few years. As such they'd be, if anything, more traceable (so more risky either to hold or resell) than anonymous wooden boxes with a fresh coat of paint.
So, I wouldn't think of them as being 'more nickable' - but maybe that's just me, not the thieves!

Since Paynes are insetting a largish maker's brand into the roof and alighting board (at least), maybe they are missing a trick by not moulding in a serial number? Perhaps there will be a manufacturing date 'clock' as seen on many moulded products - even that would be useful securing ID for those keeping equipment records.

 

[Winker]

Does that mean you will only ever keep your bees/poly hives in your garden when you change over,for fear of them being stolen.

Yeah i may just do the polys in the garden for a few years, i have enough space to do around 7 hives and they have plenty to forage on im only 3/4 of a mile out of town so the bees have best of both worlds. I have 19 hives made up from Ply that were cheep as chips to make, which i was intending on filling with bees next year.

Since the 2 polys cost me more than the entire 24 wooden ones i now own, i will keep them hidden for a few years. So if the wooden hives get stolen i just lose a few bees and a few bits of cheep wood. Being a true Scotsman, it hurts just spending the cash, but it hurts even more to lose it.

And keeping them in the garden i can keep a closer eye on them to see how they fair compared to their wooden counterparts

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I have poly and wooden 14 x 12s, and prefer to use the former. I will not ditch my wood stuff but new stuff is now poly that we have some choice on BS frames.

re commercial vs 14 x 12. I used to use commercial as it worked well in wiltshire, however up here the brood is a different shape and prefer 14 x12 now however that is in all in wood. In poly it is difficult to see a brood ball any more!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I started with Nationals last year and still have a colony in one.
The other two are 14 x 12 and are going into winter well provisioned so even up here in wet Cumbria the format seems suitable. One is a cedar hive and the other an MB poly (I like the top bee space)
We'll see what the spring brings.

 

[tonybloke]

I started on nationals and did consider going to commercials. After handling some commercial frames at the association apiary I found the lugs where to small for my large hands and didn't feel safe handling the frames.

So I ended up on 14x12 and found those a lot easier to handle.

SteveJ

I use commercial broods, and as for the short lugs? so what, I was taught to hold frames by the side-bars, not the lugs!!

 

[JKWebber]

Thanks for all the feed back,

I have read the other threads and posts regarding 12x14 and alternatives now

I think I will stick with the national as it seems to be the most common size around here, and will pre-order a couple of 12x14 poly brood boxes with OMF's, and new frames, then after I move the girls to their new poly brood next year I will modify my wooden brood box to create a second super.

I think this is the most effect way for a second hive

Thanks again for the posts

John

 

[itma]

...
I think I will stick with the national ... and will pre-order a couple of 12x14 poly brood boxes with OMF's, and new frames, then after I move the girls to their new poly brood next year I will modify my wooden brood box to create a second super.

I think this is the most effect way for a second hive
...

Not sure I understand the wisdom of that.

Keeping the existing wooden Nat and adding an eke gets you a wooden 14x12 hive, that you could extend with poly supers (as long as you had wood directly beneath the wooden roof, or a spare poly roof to top a poly super, or feeder).
And if your second hive was a complete poly 14x12 (with a couple of supers), you'd have one of each, but using the same frames, and you could, if need be, swap most bits around.

I have been told that its not a good idea to have a poly brood overwinter under wood super or roof (unless well stuffed with insulation to stay warmer than the side walls).
And selling your wooden BB (if you didn't want to add a module to give 14x12) sounds to me like a better idea than trying to cut it down to a super ...
Hopefully, with two hives, you are going to need to own more than just two supers ... !

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

spare brood boxes

Not only spare supers but spare brood boxes, for the inevitable swarming or A/S maybe two you never know!!!

dave W