12 x 14 not big enough

[moby]

Is anybody on 12 x 14 brood box finding that it is not big enough for brood expansion and is having add a super to compensate?

 

[peteinwilts]

yup! I have a small number of colony's that I have had to expand to 14x12+1/2
my top scorers last year were in this configuration

 

[susbees]

Same as double brood. Not so uncommon for prolific bees if you choose those strains (or they choose you )

 

[Luminos]

Is anybody on 12 x 14 brood box finding that it is not big enough for brood expansion and is having add a super to compensate?

Yes, one of mine...

 

[Lorenz]

I have a couple of colonies on double 14 x 12.

 

[waverider]

I have a couple of colonies on double 14 x 12.

Same here. Must be steroids in them crops!

 

[Tom Bick]

I have one hive on double brood and starting to think is this going to be big enough

 

[moby]

Thanks all glad to know I am not on my own, was advised to use brood to boost weaker colonies which I suppose makes sense in certain circumstances

 

[Outlander]

Not yet but it's looking like it's going that way.

 

[Holly Bees]

No you're not on your own !!

 

[oliver90owner]

Theoreticaly a 14 x 12 should be big enough to contain all brood most of the time. Unfortunately there will be a honey arch at the top of each frame as the Q/E will tend to be a barrier for this over two frames.

Further, in most situations there will be no brood on the outer sides of at least the outside frames of the brood box. That lowers the number of available brooding cells further, but the beekeeper may have crammed in the full complement of twelve frames if a National with Hoffman frames.
Set against this, there will doubtless be areas of drone cells, too.

So several possible variables but two boxes of 14 x 12 will have around 140k possible worker cells.

Now think of how many eggs per day she is going to need to fill a double brood 14 x 12 for a turn-around of, say, a 25 day cycle to fully utilse those cells for brooding. It ain't gonna happen. No way Full stop. Yes, she may need a bit of extra space (beyond the single box) for a short time at peak lay-rate, but that is all, and only because a lot of cells are unavailable for brood.

Now, if the beekeeper does not make sure that the available space is utilised, there is the possibility of needing two boxes. But leaving loads of honey in large brood frames for later in the year will lead to possible extraction problems or not being able to recover as large a crop as possible, so not good practice, especially if a commercial enterprise.

YMMV, but that is my take on it.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I have a couple of colonies on double 14 x 12.

Being 6ft 3" tall does have its advantages

 

[smith.james0]

My bees are on 4 brood box at the moment that will rise to about 6 for the brood nest.

James

 

[BeeJayBee]

My bees are on 4 brood box at the moment that will rise to about 6 for the brood nest.

Wow! You must be very tall!

 

[smith.james0]

Wow! You must be very tall!

I use ladders if need!!

James

 

[oliver90owner]

I use ladders if need!!

Firstly, what type hive (might be a Warre?).

Secondly, how many bees do you estimate are in your colony?

Thirdly, what is your estimate of her lay-rate?

Answers to these questions might be revealing....

 

[smith.james0]

I use ladders if need!!

Firstly, what type hive (might be a Warre?).

Secondly, how many bees do you estimate are in your colony?

Thirdly, what is your estimate of her lay-rate?


Answers to these questions might be revealing....

Firstly, what type hive (might be a Warre?).

National, but a late friend used Belgium 12 frame

The method is similar to the rose hive method apart from you add the next brood box to the top, and you move frames up. If you didn't use a queen excluder the queen would lay in your super, because she needs more space to lay.

A picture of me with my friends hives last year

James

 

[drstitson]

"The method is similar to the rose hive method apart from you add the next brood box to the top, and you move frames up."

why not just add new BB below the top box? save disturbing all the frames.

 

[smith.james0]

"The method is similar to the rose hive method apart from you add the next brood box to the top, and you move frames up."

why not just add new BB below the top box? save disturbing all the frames.

When the box is full, you remove frames 2 and 10 and replace with empty foundation. The frames you remove put in slots 5 and 7 of you new box and fill the rest with fountain. On you next inspection depending on how they are doing move frames 5 and 7 to 4 and 8 and replace with foundation, repeat this moving the frames out till the box is full.

Good points with the method: Great honey crop, lots of workers, reduced tendency to swarm.

Not so good points: More equipment needed, when it all goes wrong it goes wrong very quickly!

James

 

[MJBee]

I have a 14 x 12 and a Commercial that both have 10 frames of wall to wall brood. Only the outer faces of the outside frames have stores. Both hives have 3 supers also crammed with bees, yet neither have shown any tendency to swarm.
To ease congestion I plan to give both of them a standard National brood box below the QX.
Both queens are from the same strain and have produced a massive foraging force that fills supers very quickly by conversely when the weather turns bad they empty the supers just as quickly to feed themselves. Catch 22.