Your take on the Wednesday demonstrations?

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

Polyanwood 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
2,194
Reaction score
1
Location
London
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
45
Already the education system is not fair. If you live in a poor area the odds of you getting a good education are much less. The children of the rich don't have to work so hard or be so clever to get on. Some are born with silver spoons, now as ever.

It is a different argument to say that we the tax payers should not have to pay towards degrees that don't give us much benefit...film studies,classics, drama,religious studies,fine art... no use except to the student perhaps. It sounds like no one on here wants to subsidise them.

But would you want all people with the degrees that are more useful and therefore tend to attract good salaries to be out of the reach of working class young people????

Most students seem rather unpolitical and to quite like the police.. perhaps less so after this.
 

psafloyd 

Queen Bee
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
3,461
Reaction score
3
Location
London/Essex
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Probably about 5/6 at the moment
Where are these working class young people? There are none. Certainly few.

There is a massively expanded middle class, but why shouldn't arts programmes be supported?
 

Hivemaker. 

Queen Bee
Beekeeping Sponsor
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
14,291
Reaction score
17
Location
Exmoor.
Hive Type
national
Where are these working class young people? There are none. Certainly few.

Maybe just not where you live.
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,131
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
"We're all middle class now!" has been the cry for some time, yet those from the poorest families have far less chance of advancing themselves than their predecessors in the 60's - in those days a great many "working class" kids made it to grammar school and college or university, and gained qualifications that were actually worth something, and did things their parents could never have aspired to.
I find the whole "class" thing fascinating, and have come to the conclusion that money has very little to do with it - some of the "poshest" people I know are poor as church mice, and some of what I'd view as "common as muck and proud of it" are rolling in money.......
 

Polyanwood 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
2,194
Reaction score
1
Location
London
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
45
Oh it isn't just funny degrees that I don't want to pay for.....I think art programmes don't add value full stop and I don't want to pay for them....and actually I don't want to pay for the subsidy of any arts either... the Arts Council, poets in residence, the Royal Ballet, Opera.

Soon I am going to be billy no mates!!!!
 

jimbeekeeper 

Queen Bee
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
2,454
Reaction score
1
Location
East Yorkshire
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
1
Where are these working class young people? There are none. Certainly few.

There is a massively expanded middle class, but why shouldn't arts programmes be supported?
I am not questioning the "true" core subjects, and that does class Arts etc, but watering down and yes to even make easier and the common issue of they do one module of science in Needle work and they want to add BSc to their name.

My point was NOT to stop funding, but to review the "what is a degree" giving people these days?

Even in my time since graduating, student now are "forced" to progress to a Masters as a Degree is just taken as the Norm. And poor you if you only get a 2:1 you might as well just pack up now and start cleaning the streets.

The biggest issue in my industry is lack of...I was going to experience, yes that is true. People expect to start at the top.

But no, the biggest issue is quite often lack of common sense, which is fighting in the industry I work in.
 

Hivemaker. 

Queen Bee
Beekeeping Sponsor
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
14,291
Reaction score
17
Location
Exmoor.
Hive Type
national
Well they have certainly had a lot of fun in London.....silly place to go driving the royal limo as well.
 

Queens59 

Queen Bee
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,373
Reaction score
0
Location
Dartmoor edge, uk
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
5...2 wooden National, 2 poly Nat & 1 poly nuc...bursting at the seams
My background was pure working class, but I got a 2:1 in 2003 followed by a Cert Ed and Level 4 Adult Literacy to Adults qualification the following year. I didn't have a chance of doing an MA (even though I wanted to) funding isn't easy to get and student loans don't cover MAs. I think the 'known tie' unis include MAs in their courses but not many others. I then walked straight into a teaching position, luckily...

I also gained a debt of £15,000! Now I can't work they write to me every 3 months asking when I am going back to work...I have written, my Doctor wrote to them, my specialist in London wrote - but every 3 months they write...I wonder if they have degrees in reading?? Mind you, I do feel we are in danger of people needing a degree to make coffee in Costa.
 

Monsieur Abeille 

Queen Bee
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
3
Location
Exmoor
Hive Type
none
Number of Hives
None of my own
University education is far too available these days. Problem not being the fees, but the volume and quality of courses available. Consequently the value of a degree is barely worth the paper its written on.


Got no problem with the increase in tuition fees even though it will affect me/my daughter at a time when I'd like to be retired.
  • Country is in financial **** and needs to make savings -this is one area that doesnt really hurt those on the breadline
  • Should everyone have to subsidise the student population even if they have no interest in it?
  • Its a loan - you repay the money over extreamly favourable terms when you can afford it. Whats the issue?
  • It doesnt stop ANYONE from being a student, this cry of eliteism is pure hysterical rubbish
Students have always loved a good demo and very rarely, going on some of the interviews, even understand what they are making a fuss about.

Some of the actions yesterday - urinating on Churchill's statue and taking flags off Senotaph, are just sickening, and for once I find myself agreeing with the Mail - but the majority are kids who are easily led and are just stupid, so I guess we shouldnt be surprised.
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,131
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
I agreee that too many people are being encouraged towards useless degrees, and the number should be drastically cut.
But, on the subject of the demos themselves - "urinating on Churchill's statue" - it would appear that Mr Plod is using the totally unforgivable tactic of "kettling", so after several hours of being "bottled up" with no loos, I'm not surprised some had to relieve themselves (trust the Mail to twist it!) - to my mind "kettling" is all part of the "let's drive them to acts of violence, then we can daemonise them, and the Mail readers will cheer when the brave boys in blue kick the living daylights out of them" tactic.

"but the majority are kids who are easily led and are just stupid" - the stupid ones will be at home watching "Cash in the Attic" - I've just heard an interview on my local radio station with one of the student protesters who was bright and articulate -I'm heartened to see a new generation of kids getting off their mollycoddled backsides and doing what youth should be doing - questioning the system, and trying to change it!

As for "what's wrong with loans?" - a great deal! - I remember halcyon days when students who merited it were given full grants by "the state", and felt free to study what interested them, with no particular thought as to it's "commercial" possibilities (there was in fact quite a prejudice against "breadhead" subjects).
Ever since the days of Thatcher, young people have had their lives rearranged round "loans" - first of all mortgages, now repaying loans for education - in my day we had children in our twenties, nowadays they're often leaving it nearly too late, with all the attendant dangers......... Social engineering of the very worst sort - and a decided bias towards "commerce", rather than supporting those subjects that are now sadly neglected (to the extreme detriment of the country):coolgleamA:
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
12,502
Reaction score
28
Location
South West
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Miriads
Don't debase degrees please!


I went to an East End slum clearance school, my farther and grandfather were both artisans and worked very hard for a living, and no way could they get me into a grammar school, even though I passed the11 plus etc etc...... not for the likes of you sonny!!!!!!!!

I worked hard all my life and achieved "Captain of Industry" status, and a couple of O levels an ONC and a HNC on the way... but not a degree.


I always wondered why? my poor background, lack of education, not being able to speak propper like all those grammar school snotties?????

Due to my companies being merged, bought out etc etc, I found myself being offered early retirement!

I went to UoP and did a years foundation degree in science, a 4 year BSc in Environmental Science, with an extra couple of years research, ended up with a 2:1

IT WAS DAMMED HARD WORK>>>>>>>>>>>

I funded this myself
I am bitter that the Tory and CON~DEM party have increased fees, no matter what the degree subject.

NO DOUBT THESE IDIOTS WHO ARE NOW RUINING OUR COUNTRY WANT US TO BECOME THE POOREST NATION IN EUROPE

The Party of Privaledges and wealth creation for the few !!
 

Monsieur Abeille 

Queen Bee
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
3
Location
Exmoor
Hive Type
none
Number of Hives
None of my own
icanhopit - don't disagree that the system was far from perfect years ago, and still isn't ideal - and well done for getting yourself a degree. Did similar myself with the Open University so I know how much work is involved. My point is though that the value of degrees has fallen as they have become more accessible with dafter subjects, and I'm afraid to say I suspect easier for many as well.

My son got a Biology degree two years ago and has failed to find a suitable job that can put it to use - like it or not degrees mean a lot less than they used to.
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
12,502
Reaction score
28
Location
South West
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Miriads
SURF SCIENCE... now ther is a waste of time..................




I help out with the maths...and believe you me those guys and girls doing this soppy waste of time degree do the same stuff as the astrophysisists, nuclear physics boffins and leave me standing often in total admiration!

WE NEED TO FULLY FUND THSE PEOPLE... they are NOT lazy sods!!
most work part time and do not have RICH TORY parents... then Plymouth is not a wealthy area like the Home Counties!!!!


Roll on the next general election

Every forum I look at has grumblings about this government, so any BEEKS wondering why or what this has got to do with beekeeping, will realise that this may be our only way to vent our frustration and grieviences against this CON~DEM~NATION we have
had forced upon us
I make no appology!
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
12,502
Reaction score
28
Location
South West
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Miriads
icanhopit - don't disagree that the system was far from perfect years ago, and still isn't ideal - and well done for getting yourself a degree. Did similar myself with the Open University so I know how much work is involved. My point is though that the value of degrees has fallen as they have become more accessible with dafter subjects, and I'm afraid to say I suspect easier for many as well.

My son got a Biology degree two years ago and has failed to find a suitable job that can put it to use - like it or not degrees mean a lot less than they used to.
My eldest son is taking his degree at the moment in Ocean Sciences....

He knows that possibly he may not get a job directly using the specific subject skills.... however he will have life skills essential in modern society... transferrable skills can even be found in beekeeping, tollerance, integrety, honesty, self belief.... shall I go on.................
 

victor meldrew 

Queen Bee
***
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
6,830
Reaction score
349
Location
Wigan
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
I was there on the 14th .
Somehow I don't think she would have lasted two minutes (female or not)
A line has to be drawn somewhere .
Obviously the bitch requires education not provided by any university but the kind that should have been provided during her formative years :cuss:

John Wilkinson
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
12,502
Reaction score
28
Location
South West
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Miriads
EXACTLY !!!!!

There is no disrespect..... only condemnation of the lack of democracy in this country of ours.... that our brothers sisters farthers and mothers even gave their lives for in ultimate sacrifice.
 

Poly Hive 

Queen Bee
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
13,826
Reaction score
155
Location
Scottish Borders
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
12 and 18 Nucs
FWIW.

Dear Tony wanted 50% of school leavers to have higher ed. Laudable.

The reality was the Uni system expanded at a huge rate of knots and as in any supply and demand situation the value of a degree fell.

There were and are courses which are very important.

There are courses now which I wonder at. Media studies for one.

The problem now for all these graduates with their hard won or not so hard won degree is that there are not the 50% of jobs needing a high qualification.

I rather hope that this fee situation will somewhat temper the ambitions of some of those that want to go to Uni to do a soft degree and then have the mountain of paying for it all.

PH
 

victor meldrew 

Queen Bee
***
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
6,830
Reaction score
349
Location
Wigan
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
I have a Grandson who qualified last year with a two one with hons in accountancy and business studies , he worked all the way through his course at Ar**s in Bangor and during holidays at Ar**s near home !
Guess what ? eighteen months later he is still working at Ar**s.
Good degree , Mickey mouse subject? no !.
As a country we have been bought by the international brigade , a group of the elite ,who rule the world by controlling it's finances .
Politicians, armies ! small fry who come and go ,it's the manipulators who hold all the cards ! :)

John Wilkinson
 

jimbeekeeper 

Queen Bee
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
2,454
Reaction score
1
Location
East Yorkshire
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
1
FWIW.

Dear Tony wanted 50% of school leavers to have higher ed. Laudable.

The reality was the Uni system expanded at a huge rate of knots and as in any supply and demand situation the value of a degree fell.

There were and are courses which are very important.

There are courses now which I wonder at. Media studies for one.

The problem now for all these graduates with their hard won or not so hard won degree is that there are not the 50% of jobs needing a high qualification.

I rather hope that this fee situation will somewhat temper the ambitions of some of those that want to go to Uni to do a soft degree and then have the mountain of paying for it all.

PH
:iamwithstupid:
 

Latest posts

Top