worried after inspection :(

[moby]

.
Is now better to abandon all brood and shake the bees on clean combs.
Then oxalic acid trickling. Out temps are not enough to use thymol or formic acid.

Then restriction of the hive to the size what bees occupye and can keep warm.
Mesh floor closed.

The condition of queen revieles out later.

.

.

 

[robsbees]

ok we have been back to the hive, and dribbled some hiveclean as thats all we have at the minute, we've ordered some oxalic acid which should be here tomorrow and we'll put that on straightaway,

so should we put the crown board above the brood box to bring all the bees into the brood box and put some sugar syrup on?

we counted the varroa on the inspection board today and there was 28 in 24 hours, put that through the beebase calculator has estimated 1400 adult mites in the colony

we'll keep a check and see how we go.

thanks all for your advice, its been really helpful

 

[itma]

...
so should we put the crown board above the brood box to bring all the bees into the brood box and put some sugar syrup on?

Have you got a honey-crop super on? /otherwise I don't understand ...
Unless they are well-provided with stores (which is unlikely by the sound of things), I'd be giving them syrup, what with the current weather forecasts.

we counted the varroa on the inspection board today and there was 28 in 24 hours, put that through the beebase calculator has estimated 1400 adult mites in the colony

Never mind the estimated number of mites, you are at three and a half times the threshold given for requiring "effective control" treatment in the graph (fig 50) in FERA's "Managing Varroa" booklet.

 

[drex]

Your bees are in dire peril.
I know you have little brood but how strong is the colony anyway? Bees on how many frames?

If stores are low then feed.

Get them into as compact a unit as you can ( dummies in BB, or even a nuc) and good top insulation.

Heavy Varroa load usually mean a heavy virus load too, you have already identified deformed wings

They need nurturing if to stand any chance

 

[robsbees]

there's lots of bees on all brood frames and in the super, they're still flying and bringing plenty of pollen in so I think we'll reduce it down to the brood box and put some syrup on for them.

They were a very srong colony before this inspection, came through the winter very well, the last inspection we did had brood on all but 2 of the frames thats why we put the super on.

All we can do now is follow the good advice we're getting from you guys and keep hoping they can pull through

 

[poshpikey]

With very little brood could you put the sealed brood into the freezer to kill off a lot of the mites? How many frames of sealed brood are there?

 

[itma]

He said he had very few capped brood cells, not frames!
Best to just cut it out without messing around - that brood will be full of Varroa, -and- those mites will be escaping from (and able to survive) the imminent Oxalic treatment.
Those last traces of brood have to go, otherwise their sheltered mite population will have a good start to re-infest the whole hive.

 

[exmoorbee]

with lots of bees and little brood now would be a good time for a shook swarm, they'll need feeding like crazy, and keep them to what they can cover single brood box? polly nuc?

we did this on one of ours three weeks ago, they have now drawn 7 frames and have laid up 5 of them.

we also left 2 frames of open brood untill it was capped to get the varroa on the bees but i guess oxalic acid would be good to.

doing this is meant to have a varroa kill rate above 95%, better than most chemical treatments. also helps reduce overal disease load in the hive. there is a good description of how to to it on bee base.

not sure about the weather for it now, although ours seems to be drawing wax nicly now, we are down south by the sea in a sheltered spot.

(disclamer 2nd year beekeeper, well read, little experience)
any comments any one?

 

[oliver90owner]

Someone tell the OP the worth of a shook swarm if there is little brood there?

Think about if there is no capped brood. See what I mean? In this case a shook swarm to reduce the varroa is a dead duck.

Remove the last capped brood by whatever means and treat them with something, PDQ!

RAB

 

[exmoorbee]

fair point RAB but little capped brood sugests open brood possibuly with varroa allready in. would treatmeant effect these mites? or the open brood?

 

[VEG]

oxalic will kill open brood

 

[Finman]

.
What a mesh again


- a huge mite load
- very few brood
- only stuff to treat miten under 10C temp is oxalic.

You must sacrifice the rest of brood, because otherwise oxalic does not kill mites.

After one week the colony has new larvae and they start to cap brood without mites.
If you do not treat the colony, mites go again into brood when capping. The hive will die.

How much you think to have alternatives? - and don't even mention sugar dusting. I did not.

 

[oliver90owner]

don't even mention sugar dusting. I did not.

I might have suggested sugar rolling, but I doubt a new beek would be up to that and the weather might not be too good for it either!

Seems like a dire situation. Even Apistan tsrips would quickly make things somewhat better, even if there were some mite resistance.

 

[Finman]

.
Why Oliver?

Oxalic is the best. Then Apistan is not needed. Oxalic do all. Nothing to loose any more than the rest of bees

the more master chefs, the better mite soup.

.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman,

Doubtless (I would hope) that my colonies would deteriorate to this stage without remedial action being taken. Sugar rolling is an alternative for those that do not wish to subject their queens to (further) doses of oxalic acid.

If oxalic were not available at the time (as in this case) I would not hesitate to apply apistan immediately, if available. I know it may not be completely effective but I said that in my post, if you read it carefully in proper english.

There are alternatives out there. You should not blinker yourself (and nearly everyone else) to the alternatives. Especially those that dislike oxalic acid as a chemical treatment.

 

[BeeJayBee]

There are alternatives out there. You should not blinker yourself (and nearly everyone else) to the alternatives. Especially those that dislike oxalic acid as a chemical treatment.

I'm sure I read that lemon juice can be used as a 'trickle'. But I can't remember where I read it, or what concentration.

 

[Finman]

Finman, those that do not wish to subject their queens to (further) doses of oxalic acid.

If oxalic were not available at the time (as in this case) I would not hesitate to apply apistan immediately, if available. I know it may not be completely effective but I said that in my post, if you read it carefully in proper english.

There are alternatives out there. You should not blinker yourself (and nearly everyone else) to the alternatives. Especially those that dislike oxalic acid as a chemical treatment.

yes but Oliver. Listen now. Oxalic acid does not harm queens.

I do not mind read carefully your English because you deliver wrong information and you never learn.

Those who dislike oxalic they dislike, like you. There are alternatives, but now is question about your dislike things. Don't go behind back "those who".

.if somebody use Apistan he uses. If he uses sugar, he uses. I just told what is wise to do.

.

 

[Suzi Q]

I'm sure I read that lemon juice can be used as a 'trickle'. But I can't remember where I read it, or what concentration.

Do a search, varroa control with lemon juice. Finman posted a study, from Egypt think it was.

 

[Finman]

I'm sure I read that lemon juice can be used as a 'trickle'. But I can't remember where I read it, or what concentration.

citric acid has been surely researched, but is does not work because no one recommends it.

.

Spraying lactid acid and 20 other advices. Sure, they exist.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Oxalic acid does not harm queens.

I was at a talk recently where the speaker said that Oxalic Acid reduces the life of all bees by a third.

Randy Oliver says much the same http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/

“You can treat your colonies with a liquid mixture of OA and sugar but be careful. The liquid acid shortens the life of the bees. There is no problem during summer because the bee’s life not longer than approximately 6 weeks. The problem starts with winter bees–do not treat your winter bees more than one time with liquid OA. When using liquid OA bees get wet and have to clean each other. The result is, the acid ends up in their stomach and during winter without a cleaning flight it shortens the life of the bees. Two treatments on winter bees might kill the colony. Liquid OA is a slow killer and bees will probably die after a few weeks or month instead reaching the next season.”​