Will my bees survive?

[lebouche]

I moved them into a hive from a cutout. Unfortunatly I only had a full size hive to put them in.
I fed them one k of sugar and went away on holiday for two and a half weeks. My mom fed them once.
Yesterday I opened up the hive and they were only on one and three quarters of a frame...and infested with greater and lesser (or whatever they are called) wax ******* moths.
I've bought some Certan but will only be able to apply it to the unoccupied combs.
The main comb they are on is very overcrowded and they were clustering on the bottom of the comb like they are avoiding the infested frames.
I'll attach a pic or two.
From what I understand I can only treat the unoccupied comb and they have to be treated and dried outside the hive before re-introduction so I can not spray the inside of the hive.
They seemed to have abandoned much of the cut out frames altogether, leaving dead brood in them, some bees half emerged etc.
My plan of action is -
I have fed them another two kilograms of sugar but am not sure how much space they will have to store it.
I can treat some of the cut out frames and put them back in I suppose but most have dead brood in them.
I have bought some pollen patties and intend to feed them some more sugar asap as i can get down there.
I also thought I could cut a board to make the hive smaller in the section where they are.
Many thanks for any thoughts or tips!!
I'll post some pics now.
Thank you,

Duncan

 

[lebouche]

Pictures

Pics

 

[Poly Hive]

My honest answer. If I were a bookie I know the odds...

Sorry

PH

 

[lebouche]

pics2

pics2

 

[lebouche]

My honest answer. If I were a bookie I know the odds...

Sorry

PH

Thanks, but I should at least give them a chance right? Not that I have really as I've made so many mistakes. It's like I'm responsible for wiping out an entire town!

 

[ashleybee]

If I were you I'd put them in a poly nuc as it's prob there best chance but I have to agree with PH

 

[VEG]

To give them a chance get them into a nuc so they have a smaller area to keep warm. Give them a feed and dump the comb that the waxmoth is/has been on. A healthy colony will have very few if any wax moth in the hive, you have quite a lot on the top bars without the ones we cant see.

 

[oliver90owner]

There does not appear to be any brood?
There may be some on the covered frame, but I am doubting whether there is a queen present.

 

[m100]

Also unless that is a 'top bee space special' then you have fitted the runners way too low. The top surface of the frame top bar should be just below the level of the topmost edge of the hive body.

 

[For want of a better word]

If no queen,, as Tractor Man has proposed.....
Merge them with another colony...........
Thymolate the feed, treat merged colony for varroa and vaporise with OA midwinter.

Oh... and never bet with anything you can not afford to loose !

 

[lebouche]

Thanks for all the replies.
I'll take it all onboard.
Can't afford a nuc so wondering if I can just board off the other part of the hive or make something. I suppose making something might be the best bet.
I'll have a look at the runners too.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for all the replies.
I'll take it all onboard.
Can't afford a nuc so wondering if I can just board off the other part of the hive or make something. I suppose making something might be the best bet.
I'll have a look at the runners too.

Use/make dummy boards to reduce the hive to 5 frames and pack out the voids each side with some kind of insulating material - scraps of kingspan from a local builders skip are ideal

 

[lebouche]

I packed out either side of the combs today with insulation. I used roof insulation which comes covered in plastic.
I figured it didn't bother them in the roof so shouldn't bother them now. On either side of the four combs (which I had moved to the middle as per advice here) I have a piece of plywood.
I have been feeding the bees syrup and pollen substitute (which they havent taken much of).
The first feed I gave them seemed to help them build half a comb or so and since the feed I gave them ten days ago they seem to have filled out another one and a half brood combs with stores.
There is one comb of brood and I saw the queen for the first time today, which was very exciting for me. She was a very dark colour and I put the comb straight back in as it was only 14 degrees and I would have rather inspected when it was a little warmer.

Having the bees away from my home means I have to take any chance I can get to visit.

There were still some wax moth larvae despite the bacteria treatment I gave the empty combs, although only a few and on the empty combs.

I can't take their one comb of brood away to spray it can I? I imagine the brood would get cold and getting all the bees off would be difficult and probably stressful for them.
I also saw a few bees covered in mites, orangey mites. I'm wondering if they were varroa and if so how long I have to treat them before if could be fatal. Interesting it seems to be only a few bees which have many mites on them.

Generally speaking the colony looks like it is twice the strength it was a month ago.
Any advice would be most appreciated!!!
Thank you

 

[itma]

Seeing varroa on bees is indicative of a heavy infestation.

If you don't have it, download "Managing Varroa" FERA/DEFRA's excellent foundation document.
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=16

Visible varroa is a call for treatment.
Getting late now for thymol to vaporise properly.
No harm in bunging in some VarroaGard. In extremis, I've heard of people dusting with the powder, but putting a tray of it inside the entrance (while they are still flying) is the way its supposed to be used.

 

[lebouche]

Seeing varroa on bees is indicative of a heavy infestation.

If you don't have it, download "Managing Varroa" FERA/DEFRA's excellent foundation document.
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=16

Visible varroa is a call for treatment.
Getting late now for thymol to vaporise properly.
No harm in bunging in some VarroaGard. In extremis, I've heard of people dusting with the powder, but putting a tray of it inside the entrance (while they are still flying) is the way its supposed to be used.

Thanks itma,
I have downloaded that to read.
found the varroa guard so thanks v much!!
One other thing I noticed today- after my inspection was a bee dragging out something white... I thought it might have been a cocoon but upon firther examination it seemed to be a completely white larvae. Well beyond larvae it was almost like a bee but pure white and it looked like the bee was stinging it.
Hmmm.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll try and get something and get down there by Friday.

 

[itma]

VarroaGard isn't the most potent thing you could throw at them, but it shouldn't do any harm (like putting the queen off lay) and it can do something, even this late in the season.
Use Oxalic (or Lactic or Formic) later, but doing something now is important.
Others might suggest Apistan/Bayvarol (pyretherin-based miticides). The less they are used, the better - and the more chance there is of them working when they are used. But they are heavy hitters (unless you have resistant mites) and they should be usable this late in the season.


/ bees will remove dead or non-viable pupae. Question is, why the problem? Varroa, disease, or too much brood for the number of bees to incubate properly in the cooler weather?

 

[Hivemaker.]

but doing something now is important.
Others might suggest Apistan/Bayvarol (pyretherin-based miticides).

Or Apivar,bit less chance of there being much resistance.

 

[Andy Duff]

I would not merge and risk the host colony. Sorry but IMHO you will waste your time and money on trying to save them. I have got very small colonies through winter (2 frames) in a reduced and insulated national.
The bees were in good shape, the winters were mild, I was constantly feeding them and very lucky.

 

[lebouche]

I would not merge and risk the host colony. Sorry but IMHO you will waste your time and money on trying to save them. I have got very small colonies through winter (2 frames) in a reduced and insulated national.
The bees were in good shape, the winters were mild, I was constantly feeding them and very lucky.

This is my only colony. I have to try and save them.
I feel duty bound as I acquired them through tearing them out of their home. Also a few more pounds on some treatment won't make much difference at this stage after all I have spent!

 

[waverider]

Looks like it may be a repeat of the past!
(ref 1st post Aug 2012)