Will my bees survive?

[lebouche]

Actually varroa guard, not Apiguard if that makes any difference.
Thanks

 

[mbc]

Actually varroa guard, not Apiguard if that makes any difference.
Thanks

AFAIK varroaguard is largely snake oil, if in doubt, I'd give them a drizzle with oxalic.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do dribble.
Natural mite drop is NOT an indication of infestation.
If you have seen mites on the bees this infestation is severe.

 

[Adie]

Yes do apply Oxalic acid solution; you should certainly see quite a mite drop after application.
Adrian

 

[itma]

AFAIK varroaguard is largely snake oil, if in doubt, I'd give them a drizzle with oxalic.

Check earlier in this thread - late September and varroa treatment was urgently needed.
Too late then for Apiguard.



Yes, Lebouche, treat with Oxalic.
Trickle2 is (nearly) foolproof.
Somewhat astonished that you haven't done it yet.
Good to hear that the bees have survived thus far.

Don't bother with a count. Do the Oxalic.
You can do counts later to see what the residual problem might be.

Fondant. Needs to be close to the bees, not in a feeder.
Poly hive - Pains? If you put the plastic cover sheet away and use a framed wooden crown board, you can lay thin slices (6mm?) of fondant direct onto the top bars (in the beespace). You don't have that beespace with the clear plastic flexicover.
Doing this before closing up after Oxalic should be the minimally intrusive method of giving it to the bees.
And I'd expect this lot will need it.

 

[itma]

Natural mite drop is NOT an indication of infestation.
If you have seen mites on the bees this infestation is severe.

Pedantically, I'd say that natural mite drop indicates that the problem is at least that bad. It could be worse, but not better.
Its actually LACK of visible mite drop that does not indicate all clear!

Having seen mites on bees in the Autumn, regardless of any other treatments used, mid-winter Oxalic would be highly prudent.

 

[oliver90owner]

As I have said time and time again, a single check is nothing more than a guess. I always rely on at least a couple of different observations - hopefully to recognise an increasing mite loading before deformed wing virus is evident in the emerging bees.

On-going observations throughout the year will give the best information of the mite level.

For instance if thymol treatment is carried out and very few mites are dropped, one says to oneself: Is this a low mite infestation cleared out satisfactorily, or has the thymol not worked? The beekeeper should have a good idea of which it is (weather conditions, previous results, etc). Of course experience counts here, and also results from other colonies are going to be a good indicator, too.

Again, the question of how many colonies one should start with is also relevant; Two similar colonies side by side, treated at the same time will be expected to get the same-ish efficacy, so if one drops a lot and the other very few, inferences can be drawn with a fair degree of confidence. Comparing something with nothing is much harder to do!

Apiguard (I don't use it as first choice, although I have some on the shelf), IMO, will have had some poor results this last autumn, because of the weather (and the simple fact that I personally have less confidence in it than the manufacturers, and many other beeks).

Any colony observed with lots of mites on bees, young bees with deformed wings, or more than a single mite (per bee) is likely to need treating. Oxalic is the treatment for this time of the year (for those that need it) and trickling is easiest for the newbie.

Seems that these need it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pedantically, I'd say that natural mite drop indicates that the problem is at least that bad. It could be worse, but not better.
Its actually LACK of visible mite drop that does not indicate all clear!

What I was trying to say was that you shouldn't use a low natural mite drop to indicate a low hive infestation.
I live in hope of a zero mite drop being a minus number in a hive.....

 

[lebouche]

Check earlier in this thread - late September and varroa treatment was urgently needed.
Too late then for Apiguard.



Yes, Lebouche, treat with Oxalic.
Trickle2 is (nearly) foolproof.
Somewhat astonished that you haven't done it yet.
Good to hear that the bees have survived thus far.

Don't bother with a count. Do the Oxalic.
You can do counts later to see what the residual problem might be.

Fondant. Needs to be close to the bees, not in a feeder.
Poly hive - Pains? If you put the plastic cover sheet away and use a framed wooden crown board, you can lay thin slices (6mm?) of fondant direct onto the top bars (in the beespace). You don't have that beespace with the clear plastic flexicover.
Doing this before closing up after Oxalic should be the minimally intrusive method of giving it to the bees.
And I'd expect this lot will need it.

Thanks so much all of you for the replies.
I was going to treat as close to New Years Day as possible as I read about allowing 21 days after a cold snap or something along those lines.
The ladies ave been in a Poly Hive for sometime. They had an eke and a 5kg slab of fondant on top (with some slices in the polythene bag it came in on the bees side. They were having a little munch when I opened it up to trickle. The fondant is thicker than wide and doesn't cover the complete length of the frames.
I have another 5kg I could thinly slice perhaps to reduce dead space. I also added a layer of inch thick polystyrene on top of the fondant underneath the perspex. also a layer of left over plaster I had from patching up the cut out on top of the outside of the polyhive lid. I figured they could use all the insulation they could get.

I could tamper with the fondant arrangement again tomorrow. Not sure they would appreciate it. hate bothering them as they have been through so much and are always so good natured.
Thanks again.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

The ladies ave been in a Poly Hive for sometime.

Can I invite you to rephrase the above, to read:

"The ladies have been in a poly-hive for some time"?

Writing as you have, is likely to raise unwarranted speculation about an honoured member of the Forum!

Or perhaps you know something we don't?

Dusty

 

[itma]

...
I was going to treat as close to New Years Day as possible as I read about allowing 21 days after a cold snap or something along those lines.
The ladies ave been in a Poly Hive for sometime. They had an eke and a 5kg slab of fondant on top (with some slices in the polythene bag it came in on the bees side. They were having a little munch when I opened it up to trickle. The fondant is thicker than wide and doesn't cover the complete length of the frames.
I have another 5kg I could thinly slice perhaps to reduce dead space. I also added a layer of inch thick polystyrene on top of the fondant underneath the perspex. also a layer of left over plaster I had from patching up the cut out on top of the outside of the polyhive lid. I figured they could use all the insulation they could get.

I could tamper with the fondant arrangement again tomorrow. Not sure they would appreciate it. hate bothering them as they have been through so much and are always so good natured.
Thanks again.

The thing is to make the fondant as accessible as possible from wherever the cluster might be.
So normally a wider thinner layer is thought preferable. That also minimises the "head space" required above the frames.
Is your eke an empty super or an Apiguard-type eke (which would only be an inch or two tall)?
Polystyrene? Packaging polystyrene can be chewed by bees. This can make a mess. So, its usual to put such insulation above rather than below the cover board/sheet. However, if your eke is rather tall, there would be good reason for trying it your way.

If they still have plenty fondant and they are on the job, then giving them excess isn't going to help. However, better to give it to them now, when it is pretty mild, rather than an emergency opening during a cold spell after they run out. The bees cluster loses mobility as the weather gets colder, so arranging the fondant "together" rather than separated gives them the best chance of finding the supplies.


Oxalic treatment timing.
Ideal is when colony is broodless.
They'll more likely produce new brood in a mild spell, rather than a cold one. So treating right at the end of a month-long cold spell would be the best chance of hitting no brood. Open brood suffers from the acid (so that particular brood is a waste of bee effort), and sealed brood provides a bunker for varroa to escape the acid - making the treatment less effective, so the varroa population bounces back sooner. Which I suspect is likely to be a problem this year...

 

[lebouche]

The thing is to make the fondant as accessible as possible from wherever the cluster might be.
So normally a wider thinner layer is thought preferable. That also minimises the "head space" required above the frames.
Is your eke an empty super or an Apiguard-type eke (which would only be an inch or two tall)?
Polystyrene? Packaging polystyrene can be chewed by bees. This can make a mess. So, its usual to put such insulation above rather than below the cover board/sheet. However, if your eke is rather tall, there would be good reason for trying it your way.

If they still have plenty fondant and they are on the job, then giving them excess isn't going to help. However, better to give it to them now, when it is pretty mild, rather than an emergency opening during a cold spell after they run out. The bees cluster loses mobility as the weather gets colder, so arranging the fondant "together" rather than separated gives them the best chance of finding the supplies.


Oxalic treatment timing.
Ideal is when colony is broodless.
They'll more likely produce new brood in a mild spell, rather than a cold one. So treating right at the end of a month-long cold spell would be the best chance of hitting no brood. Open brood suffers from the acid (so that particular brood is a waste of bee effort), and sealed brood provides a bunker for varroa to escape the acid - making the treatment less effective, so the varroa population bounces back sooner. Which I suspect is likely to be a problem this year...

Thanks for the in-depth reply.
I cut the fondant today into thinner sheets so that it covers the frames completely. Layed a sheet of newspaper down first with cuts on it so that it doesn't all drip although it is quite hard. They were quite annoyed with me...but only one tried to sting me. Now the eke which is a poly eke and about four inches deep (for adapting to 14x12) is full to about one inch below its top. The polystyrene is back on top of the fondant, then the perspex and roof.
Saw more pollen coming in today... really orange stuff...

 

[QueenMaster]

if you can afford it, and do it quicky

Buy :
a langstroth nuc hive (half langstrosth width).
plastic frames for your new langstroth nuc hive.
a queen clipper
a queen marker pencil.
sugar fondant

prepare frames : put some fondant in plastic combs with a mason tool, put frames in nuc hive
Brush your bees in a box on a queen excluder,
find and mark you queen
put your bees on the new langstroth nuc hive on the frames, brush gently
release the queen in the hive after 5 min


Unfortunately there's no plastic frames with national.
Plastic frames prevent moth infestation.
Moth cannot eat plastic frames only wax and wood.



http://www.modern.co.uk/item/87/ls-full-depth-plastic-frame add beekeeping after modern
http://www.paynesbeefarm.co.uk/polystyrene-langstroth-hive/plastic-frames-for-langstroth-brood/

 

[itma]

... Now the eke which is a poly eke and about four inches deep (for adapting to 14x12) is full to about one inch below its top. The polystyrene is back on top of the fondant, then the perspex and roof.

Just for clarity, I think this identifies the "poly hive" in question as being a Pains national nuc.
With some extra top insulation to make up for the roof's slight lack of thickness, its hard to think of a better box for them for now.

To suggest changing to new frames in a different format ASAP at this time of the year, let alone queen marking and clipping at this point, is ummm ... not very helpful. AFAIK the moth problem was dealt with months ago.

I'm not sure that the newspaper under the fondant would really be helpful.
Probably not very unhelpful, but the big idea should still be to maximise the bees' access to the fondant ...
Lets not worry about a water supply as long as the weather stays like this. Might become more important if there was a proper freeze.

 

[lebouche]

Seems they are dead....think it was prob putting that layer of newspaper between them and the fondant. Haven't seen inside yet. Just heard from my mom that they are silent now when she knocks.

 

[Outlander]

If I were you I'd put them in a poly nuc as it's prob there best chance but I have to agree with PH

Agree put the in a poly. Sorry didn't look at dates

 

[lebouche]

Came to visit them today as my mom now said she heard buzzing...So I opened the lid up took of the perspex and slid out the extra layer of polystyrene I put there.
The fondant I had put in strips has all melted into a solid layer and there was a small two pence sized hole in the middle through which I could see many bees in a seam.
I trickled a teaspoon of luke warm syrup in-case they were dying from dehydration and that is why they are buzzing such much quieter lately. I have suspected they are clinging on to life since they went down in buzzing volume so much since January. I suppose it is possible that the melted fondant has dampened the sound a little.
tomorrow it will be 7 degrees. I'm thinking of sliding the perspex off again and adding some syrup to the feeder in-case they are lacking water.

 

[itma]

A wet paper towel over the fondant might be no bad thing, done quickly.



Tuesday looks like being a good day.

You'll likely be wanting to remove the hard fondant, so you have somewhere to put some fresh stuff.
Hard fondant could be stored for a week or so (bagged, in the fridge?) until it is reasonable to consider making it into syrup for liquid feeding. It will dissolve!

 

[lebouche]

So I opened up to check how the food situation was. Fondant all hard...only 1.5 seams of 14x12. didn't lift any frames out as only 12c..
Pulled off hard fondant and closed up. Syrup I had put in a few weeks ago before I went on holiday hasnt been touched and is mouldy as are some frames where the fondant was. I'm wondering how to remove the syrup!
I'm now worried that the bees will be cold as the fondant was acting as a ceiling to the frames. Now they just have the space in the eke above them and a lump if they need it.
Any tips?

Thanks v much!
P.S they were bringing in pollen today.

 

[itma]

So I opened up to check how the food situation was. Fondant all hard...only 1.5 seams of 14x12. didn't lift any frames out as only 12c..
Pulled off hard fondant and closed up. Syrup I had put in a few weeks ago before I went on holiday hasnt been touched and is mouldy as are some frames where the fondant was. I'm wondering how to remove the syrup!
I'm now worried that the bees will be cold as the fondant was acting as a ceiling to the frames. Now they just have the space in the eke above them and a lump if they need it.
Any tips?

Where there is serious concern about the bees, a sunny 12C quick inspection is probably much less risky than doing nothing.

The feeder on the Pains poly nuc is a bit of a liability. You can't clean it out while the bees are in the hive. The best you can hope to do for now is to syphon out the mouldy syrup and then close it off.

With the feeder empty, you stand a better chance of estimating the amount of stores by judging the hive weight ("hefting" as beeks call it).

If they have soft fondant available, and pollen and water available outside the hive, they shouldn't starve.
Fondant can be kept soft by wrapping it in clingfilm, and then cutting some limited bee-access through the wrapping.