Will my bees survive?

[lebouche]

Looks like it may be a repeat of the past!
(ref 1st post Aug 2012)

I think they are in a better way now but I get your point.

 

[theboynelson]

You said that the bees weren't feeding very well, if you are feeding them with a rapid feeder they are not always aware of what is in the feeder. I find it helpful to put a couple of twigs leading from the tops of the frames to the syrup, the bees naturally go up and discover it more rapidly.
It may not be the biggest problem that you have, but it may help a little.

 

[Into the lions den]

As per PH..........this colony appears to have little or no chance. In addition the presence of greater wax moth is an issue that might take things out of your hands, it is a vile pest, and can do serious damage to your wooden equipment. Dummying down the box will give the larvae places to hide away from the bees and leave you with the potential for a serious mess later.

Taking your losses in the autumn beofre a mess happens is wisest 9(but not always done, even by myself).

So, putting my sage hat on, in technical speak, I would say 'chap it on the head'........it will not survive and the wax moth is a bigger issue.

Putting my real life hat on I would probably spend way too long trying to find a way to winter it. No idea how though, only ever had one cut out prosper in all my years doing this. Most have failed within 12 months.

 

[drstitson]

"it is a vile pest, and can do serious damage to your wooden equipment"

and poly! i have a keiler that looks like it's been used as a target for shotgun practice.

 

[lebouche]

You said that the bees weren't feeding very well, if you are feeding them with a rapid feeder they are not always aware of what is in the feeder. I find it helpful to put a couple of twigs leading from the tops of the frames to the syrup, the bees naturally go up and discover it more rapidly.
It may not be the biggest problem that you have, but it may help a little.

They have taken about four liters of syrup in the last month, it's the pollen substitute they have not taken much of. I did put lots of hay in the feeder so they can climb in and out but thanks for the advice!

 

[lebouche]

As per PH..........this colony appears to have little or no chance. In addition the presence of greater wax moth is an issue that might take things out of your hands, it is a vile pest, and can do serious damage to your wooden equipment. Dummying down the box will give the larvae places to hide away from the bees and leave you with the potential for a serious mess later.

Taking your losses in the autumn beofre a mess happens is wisest 9(but not always done, even by myself).

So, putting my sage hat on, in technical speak, I would say 'chap it on the head'........it will not survive and the wax moth is a bigger issue.

Putting my real life hat on I would probably spend way too long trying to find a way to winter it. No idea how though, only ever had one cut out prosper in all my years doing this. Most have failed within 12 months.

Interesting to hear.
I wonder why that Certan hasnt been very effective.
I did spray the dummy boards and some of the new combs I put in but still found a few worms in there.
I'll treat again.
I'm wondering if there is enough comb for the queen to lay now or if I have locked her out with too much feed. Will queens lay in plastic drawn comb?
Thanks

 

[Into the lions den]

Yes indeed, have friend who made the basic error of having his store shed built insulated which makes for wax moth heaven. Should be stone cold in winter.

He had dozens and dozens of poly brood boxes rendered like lacework by greater wax moth, and two miles along the road, with cool sheds, we have none.

I only said 'wooden' in my post because the equipment pictured WAS wooden, and a reply relating to poly was not especially relevant.

Once bought a guy out at a place near Northampton. When we got well into the stack we found the wooden boxes had to be ripped apart, they were scarred all over, and the cedar ones had so many holes in them that we just chopped down the size of cheque we gave him and told him to burn the lot. We kept the pine ones as they had less damage, sterilised them and then left them in a field for the winter to kill off everything. Frost is your friend in dealing with this beast, and is one reason comb honey is stored in a freezer. Even the frames were all scarred and had holes eaten into them at the joints and eyelet holes.

Leave greater wax moth bothering your unit at all and you can have a pest for years to come.

 

[lebouche]

Yes indeed, have friend who made the basic error of having his store shed built insulated which makes for wax moth heaven. Should be stone cold in winter.

He had dozens and dozens of poly brood boxes rendered like lacework by greater wax moth, and two miles along the road, with cool sheds, we have none.

I only said 'wooden' in my post because the equipment pictured WAS wooden, and a reply relating to poly was especially relevant.

Once bought a guy out at a place near Northampton. When we got well into the stack we found the wooden boxes had to be ripped apart, they were scarred all over, and the cedar ones had so many holes in them that we just chopped down the size of cheque we gave him and told him to burn the lot. We kept the pine ones as they had less damage, sterilised them and then left them in a field for the winter to kill off everything. Frost is your friend in dealing with this beast, and is one reason comb honey is stored in a freezer. Even the frames were all scarred and had holes eaten into them at the joints and eyelet holes.

Leave greater wax moth bothering your unit at all and you can have a pest for years to come.

Thanks,
I could still move them into a poly nuc which I have bought but the frames would still have traces I imagine.

 

[simonrp]

I have just read your first post on the origin of the colony.
You are certainly undergoing a very steep learning curve.
I hope you manage to save them.
Best off luck and don't give up.

 

[lebouche]

I have just read your first post on the origin of the colony.
You are certainly undergoing a very steep learning curve.
I hope you manage to save them.
Best off luck and don't give up.

Thanks v much, won't give up as I have been facinated by bees since a child.

Sounds odd but I actually feel an affection towards them.

I'm currently weighing up my options... so many things to worry about!! The varroa, the waxmoth.

Main problem is the temperature.. When I can visit.
I am considering tonight or tomorrow but the temp will only be 12 degrees so wondering if i will do more harm than good.
I want to slip in a tray of varroa guard and to pop the roof and dust them with icing sugar and perhaps daub the tops of the frame with some Certan and spray the sides of the hive which I have cut off from the rest. This worries me in that it will cause damp...however havving seen a moth grub or two and remembering how quickly they took over before I am really keen to treat them before next Thursday which is my next free day.
I have read different opinions about applying Certan. On the bottle is says only to apply to combs outside the hive, on the net I have read you can spray it on the occupied frames....again causing damp this time of year seems to be a worry.
I was also going to add some teatree oil to their feed and perhaps some mint oil.
I also can't decide if i should transfer them to the poly nuc now- to minimise the contact with wax moth (which may still be in the main hives shell) and to give them a better chance at staying warm during the winter. It's just a little colder than it should be to work with them and I'm thinking it might not get any warmer.
This is complex!!!

 

[lebouche]

Update

Hello fellow beekeepers!
Much to my joy by bees are still alive but its still far from winter.
They are now contained within five frames..four of which are being used.
There are now three sides of jumbo super with brood and some capped stores and pollen as pictured.
I also put some fiberglass in next to the bees in the disused spaces.

Yesterday I re-cut the wooden side panels and made them fit tightly as I mis-measured last time. I also changed the fiberglass for some hay from the barn as there is some damp evident in the disused part of the hive and the tops of the frames looked like perhaps they were or maybe they are just discolored.
I also added some more 1:1 with some essential oils- sage and tea tree.
Today when I checked on the feed there were quite a few dead in the feed despite loads of hay in the syrup so I am wondering if the smell is overcoming them but read it helps with varroa and nosema.

I still have lots of varroa despite having varroagard on for a week but I supposed as I have lots of brood this may be a futile treatment.
I lightly dusted them as well as changing the tray yesterday (just from above the combs not comprehensively as the inspection was taking too long already.

I even thought I saw some varroa on the queen.

Not sure what else to try at this time of year. Maybe I can make my own trickle with varroagard and syrup.

They have really grown in strength but I know they are still very delicate.

I also painted the polynuc which I might move them into...that feeder is a ******* to paint. Only managed two coats of gloss as I couldn't get down into it easily.

Jpg 220 is Her Majesty although fairly hard to see...

 

[lebouche]

pics

Actually was thyme oil not sage doh!

 

[lebouche]

more

No sign of wax moth any more...phewf.

 

[drstitson]

Tons of dead space in that setup. The summer hasn't been wonderful and we're well into autumn now. Those bees urgently need to be either dummied down properly with decent insulation on top (and no rockwool as the fibres get into the stores) - or better still put in a nuc (eg 6 frame poly).

Reading all your posts seems like you're tinkering rather than effectively managing the colony. plus anything you're feeding them is being burnt to keep warm.

varroa guard is not equivalent to the full treatments that others have been using since august. likewise the icing sugar. and certan is effective against young WM larvae ie is used in stored frames to prevent full on infestation on storage. full sized larvae just need squishing.

To me that colony looks weak and needs all the help it can get. don't worry about the feeding - there is plenty of unused comb. and way to cold for them in that big empty box to effectively draw more comb.
and pollen substitutes are for early spring use.

if you can get a 6 frame nuc from ****** asap that'd be great otherwise you need to stock the hive with the 4 semi drawn frames, frame feeder and loads of kingspan offcuts to fill the gaps.

Judging by the strength of that colony it'll be a 30 second job to transfer into a nuc, without smoke - even if cold and raining they'll thank you.

 

[lebouche]

Tons of dead space in that setup. The summer hasn't been wonderful and we're well into autumn now. Those bees urgently need to be either dummied down properly with decent insulation on top (and no rockwool as the fibres get into the stores) - or better still put in a nuc (eg 6 frame poly).

Reading all your posts seems like you're tinkering rather than effectively managing the colony. plus anything you're feeding them is being burnt to keep warm.

varroa guard is not equivalent to the full treatments that others have been using since august. likewise the icing sugar. and certan is effective against young WM larvae ie is used in stored frames to prevent full on infestation on storage. full sized larvae just need squishing.

To me that colony looks weak and needs all the help it can get. don't worry about the feeding - there is plenty of unused comb. and way to cold for them in that big empty box to effectively draw more comb.
and pollen substitutes are for early spring use.

if you can get a 6 frame nuc from ****** asap that'd be great otherwise you need to stock the hive with the 4 semi drawn frames, frame feeder and loads of kingspan offcuts to fill the gaps.

Judging by the strength of that colony it'll be a 30 second job to transfer into a nuc, without smoke - even if cold and raining they'll thank you.

Thanks, I have remove the rock wool. They were originally living in my bathroom ceiling and it didn't bother them there so I assumed itd be ok. Have hay in there now. Painted the Nuc yesterday and will put them in it next weekend.
Thanks for all the advice I very much appreciate it! Can't get down there till next weekend and need the paint fumes to clear.

 

[drstitson]

if it were me i'd consider, if you haven't already, getting a second poly eke so that you can chuck a big lump of fondant on when you finally shut up for the year. maybe two - the second could have a lump of kingspan inside it - the P****s roofs aren't too thick.

nice dark bees BTW!

 

[lebouche]

So I moved them into the poly hive last weekend.
I put two kilos of fondent into the feeder.
I'm wondering if they still move around the hive when its cold like this.

I read tha poly hives are generally ten degrees warmer inside than the outside temperature.

Does anyone know if this logic is sound?

So if it's 10c outside then ,maybe they are warm enough to move to the feeder.
I'll take the advice and buy another poly eke next payday.


Hoping to beat the odds and pull them through.


Thanks,

 

[lebouche]

Should I OA these ladies?

Hi,
didn't want to start a new thread and clutter because there are so many OA threads.
I have a bottle of trickle and was going to treat these bees but am wondering as they came from a swarm whether I should treat them or not as they may have been treated by the previous owner.

They were still bringing in pollen mid December so could still have brood and are very low in numbers or were the last inspection (October) although they had lots of brood.

I also just read today (was going to treat them tomorrow) that I should have done a mite drop test. I did that in October but didn't see any (although I thought I saw mites on the bees but am not sure).
Anyway... this is quite an individual case and am wondering if it is crueler to leave them than to treat them.
Any of you kind folks have any advice?

Thanks and Happy New Year to you all, may it be full of honey!

 

[VEG]

Did you use apiguard or any other treatment on them at the end of our so called summer?

 

[lebouche]

Yes I took the advice and used Apiguard (the powder they walk in).
Thanks