Will a swarm, swarm again?

[thedozzer]

Just wanted to find out what other peoples experiences was of swarms once settled, have they ever swarmed again within 6-8weeks?

We had our only hive swarm 16th April, they went next door to our other 14x12 hive, since then they have filled the brood box to 10 frames of BIAS from empty foundation and we have borrowed tw0 frames of eggs for the other hive, took a quick look through the crown board today and they have already fill one super and are well on their way on the second, we have ordered another 2.
But what got me was the hundreds of little faces peering up at me reminded me of them about 4 days before they swarmed originally!

we are hoping to do an inspection this weekend but weather looking rubbish!
should we prepare to do another split as well as add more supers. or could we get away with knocking down QC's as we don't really want another nuc, we have given one away and shook out another Q- one.

We dont have enough room/equipment to start doing other forms of hive manipulation.

 

[philipm]

If you start knocking down queen cells that will solve nothing just make it more unpredictable when they will swarm ,which they surely will if they start making queen cells in the first place.I think it wise to get more equipment if you are worried about more swarms. There is still some time to go before the season ends.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if they run out of room, yes, they will swarm again.
Knocking down QC's is seldom the solution

 

[thedozzer]

if they run out of room, yes, they will swarm again.
Knocking down QC's is seldom the solution

If we remove a frame of capped brood to help the weaker hive and add yet another super is going to help?
we didn't think that we would need much larger than a 14x12 for mongrels!!

 

[enrico]

Please remember that all the time the queen is laying bees are emerging at the same rate. That is why a 14x12 should be fine, the amount she can lay before cells start becoming empty is just about right for that size. However, that won't stop them wanting to swarm. Don't forget that a queen laying eggs is not reproduction for bees, there will still only ever be one hive, their true reproduction is swarming so that one hive becomes two or more.that is why they want to, and will swarm.
How often is down to genes, room, weather, forage, strength etc etc!
Knocking queen cells down just frustrates them. The way we control hive numbers is to do swam control as necessary and then combine hives back up to reach the desired number for autumn. Overwinter and then it all starts again!!!!!!
Good luck!
E

 

[Ian123]

If we remove a frame of capped brood to help the weaker hive and add yet another super is going to help?
we didn't think that we would need much larger than a 14x12 for mongrels!!

Sure you can put a frame or 2 of sealed brood across if you wish, but you are weakening a colony that’s producing. 14x12 is only a brood and half not enough room for many mongrels or any decent prolific queen imo.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Won't be inspecting this weekend

 

[Millet]

Won't be inspecting this weekend

No wonder if you keep local Mongrels..i will be inspecting regardless of weather (brolly if need be) on this week end..

 

[thedozzer]

Please remember that all the time the queen is laying bees are emerging at the same rate. That is why a 14x12 should be fine, the amount she can lay before cells start becoming empty is just about right for that size. However, that won't stop them wanting to swarm. Don't forget that a queen laying eggs is not reproduction for bees, there will still only ever be one hive, their true reproduction is swarming so that one hive becomes two or more.that is why they want to, and will swarm.
How often is down to genes, room, weather, forage, strength etc etc!
Knocking queen cells down just frustrates them. The way we control hive numbers is to do swam control as necessary and then combine hives back up to reach the desired number for autumn. Overwinter and then it all starts again!!!!!!
Good luck!
E

Hi Enrico
even after reading Ted Hooper and the Haynes bee manual, never realised there would be this much population manipulation! they are teaching me lots in one year!!
They didn't have any QC when we inspected last Friday, but we want to be ready for what surprises the little buggers have in store for us, and the hive looks very similar to the last time they built QC

Sure you can put a frame or 2 of sealed brood across if you wish, but you are weakening a colony that’s producing. 14x12 is only a brood and half not enough room for many mongrels or any decent prolific queen imo.

Hi Ian, She didn't get going last year when we collected them so thought that 72,000 cells would be enough as we are using 11 frames.
The other hive is still producing but has been Q- for while, they have built QC with the last frame of eggs we gave them so a frame of brood would help them stay viable?

Won't be inspecting this weekend

had look at weather, Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning could be OK.

 

[thorn]

Some colonies seem to have a swarm gene. Either that or they swarm for fun.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Some colonies seem to have a swarm gene. Either that or they swarm for fun.

Catching them is the real fun, especially when they are four metres up in a dense tree!

 

[mike99]

Catching them is the real fun, especially when they are four metres up in a dense tree!

Lucky for me, my first swarm capture was in the garden next door and about 2m up a Holly tree. The neighbour was happy for me to clear below and I was able to shake them into a box. They were extremely calm. Not so now. I am feeding them as I had no drawn frames and they are a little bit feisty now, ungrateful lot.
We have never had a swarm here before. Would me having a hive in my garden attracted them? They came from a totally different direction from my hives.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Lucky for me, my first swarm capture was in the garden next door and about 2m up a Holly tree. The neighbour was happy for me to clear below and I was able to shake them into a box. They were extremely calm. Not so now. I am feeding them as I had no drawn frames and they are a little bit feisty now, ungrateful lot.
We have never had a swarm here before. Would me having a hive in my garden attracted them? They came from a totally different direction from my hives.

There's an old adage - Bees attract bees.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If you have a 14 x 12 full of brood, they will need at least a couple of supers to house the bees the colony produces, even if the supers aren't that full of honey.

 

[enrico]

Lucky for me, my first swarm capture was in the garden next door and about 2m up a Holly tree. The neighbour was happy for me to clear below and I was able to shake them into a box. They were extremely calm. Not so now. I am feeding them as I had no drawn frames and they are a little bit feisty now, ungrateful lot.
We have never had a swarm here before. Would me having a hive in my garden attracted them? They came from a totally different direction from my hives.

Would you like to take bets? I hope you are right but so often we hear, " they are not from my hives! "
Bees generally don't fly far on the first cluster so where are there other hives near you?

 

[ShinySideUp]

Would you like to take bets? I hope you are right but so often we hear, " they are not from my hives! "
Bees generally don't fly far on the first cluster so where are there other hives near you?

I can attest to this. All the swarms I have lost (and regained) have moved no more than 10 metres away before their first cluster. A swarm that definitely wasn't from my hives behaved in a completely different fashion and they had presumably clustered somewhere well away from me and were in the process of flying to their new home; from where and to where, who knows?

 

[Curly green fingers]

Would you like to take bets? I hope you are right but so often we hear, " they are not from my hives! "
Bees generally don't fly far on the first cluster so where are there other hives near you?

This has happened to me two swarms in the same tree 30 metres from the apiary .
And the nearest apiary is half a mile .
Last year I caught a swarm which had come from the neighbors hives , two this year, I'll have to take him a jar of honey or ask him if he wants any help with swarm prevention. " OW THE CHEEK "

 

[thedozzer]

If you have a 14 x 12 full of brood, they will need at least a couple of supers to house the bees the colony produces, even if the supers aren't that full of honey.

Thanks for the tip, we are hoping to take the full super of and give them another 2 empty supers with new foundation so that should keep them occupied?
we are hoping they haven't made any QC's but will find out next day or so.

 

[mike99]

Would you like to take bets? I hope you are right but so often we hear, " they are not from my hives! "
Bees generally don't fly far on the first cluster so where are there other hives near you?

All mine wear matching hoodies and these were not wearing them.
The only queen I had was marked and clipped so I don't think it's from there. I will be doing an inspection on that hive. They came from the opposite direction according to my neighbour but who knows or cares. How long do I leave them before I can do an inspection? They have been in their new home a week on saturday. I have given them 2 litres of 1:1 syrup to help with the comb drawing.

 

[enrico]

Ok, clipped queen, I admit defeat!
Maybe it was a virgin. Let me known if you can't find your clipped queen.,
Inspection? Depends what you are inspecting for? Give us a clue!
E