Will a swarm, swarm again?

[Murox]

Thanks for the tip, we are hoping to take the full super of and give them another 2 empty supers with new foundation so that should keep them occupied?
we are hoping they haven't made any QC's but will find out next day or so.

Really you probably should have already added a super of foundation while the other one was being filled.
It may be prudent to only add one super of foundation at a time, when it is two thirds drawn and filled with nectar add another super of foundation---and so on. They only draw foundation/build comb for two reasons - brood or stores. If there is a good flow on they go into "nectar mode" and will fill any available space - they don't usually build comb fast enough to keep pace with the flow so pay attention to the brood space you have given them, it could get clogged up.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for the tip, we are hoping to take the full super of and give them another 2 empty supers with new foundation so that should keep them occupied?
we are hoping they haven't made any QC's but will find out next day or so.

a second super should have been added when the first one was full of bees (not honey)

 

[thedozzer]

Really you probably should have already added a super of foundation while the other one was being filled.
It may be prudent to only add one super of foundation at a time, when it is two thirds drawn and filled with nectar add another super of foundation---and so on. They only draw foundation/build comb for two reasons - brood or stores. If there is a good flow on they go into "nectar mode" and will fill any available space - they don't usually build comb fast enough to keep pace with the flow so pay attention to the brood space you have given them, it could get clogged up.

Hi Murox, they all ready have 2 supers. one nearly full and the second they have started, so we were going to take the full one off and add one or two supers, (opinions differ!!) main concern is that is they are going to be sat in an overcrowded hive for the next week becasue of bad weather then get the swarming head on.
we did an emergency super add this afternoon between showers. so they now have 3

a second super should have been added when the first one was full of bees (not honey)

Hi JB see above, they seem to be outperforming our expectations of them!!

I do wonder if bees are like grasshoppers, if they get to much physical contact with other bees it changes their behaviour. with grasshoppers they become locusts, maybe with bees it triggers swarming

 

[mike99]

Ok, clipped queen, I admit defeat!
Maybe it was a virgin. Let me known if you can't find your clipped queen.,
Inspection? Depends what you are inspecting for? Give us a clue!
E

I was going to inspect it to make sure she was still there. I did split my original hive 3 weeks ago so the clipped queen is in a nuc. I need to transfer them to a full hiveand have one on order. So your comment about the virgin queen might be right if it's come from the Q- hive but there is still a huge amount of bees in the hive. Plus I inspected it a few days after I performed the split and they were going mental but now they are calm so I was hoping that they had raised a new queen. If it was a Virgin queen from that hive, not all the bees left with her.

 

[enrico]

I was going to inspect it to make sure she was still there. I did split my original hive 3 weeks ago so the clipped queen is in a nuc. I need to transfer them to a full hiveand have one on order. So your comment about the virgin queen might be right if it's come from the Q- hive but there is still a huge amount of bees in the hive. Plus I inspected it a few days after I performed the split and they were going mental but now they are calm so I was hoping that they had raised a new queen. If it was a Virgin queen from that hive, not all the bees left with her.

They wouldn't all leave. But every one that does leave will deminish the numbers until they can't survive. I reckon that was your swarm!
E

 

[mike99]

They wouldn't all leave. But every one that does leave will deminish the numbers until they can't survive. I reckon that was your swarm!
E

Thanks Enrico. Ok. I can believe that. However why would be my next question? The Q- hive is actually on double Brood with a super that only has one frame of honey. What I have read before is that a small amount of bees can leave with the queen on a mating flight but return shortly after when they realise what is going on. This swarm arrived Friday afternoon and stayed in the tree until I managed to gather them on Saturday evening after a failed attempt. I put them into a hive with a super as that was all I had at the time. They have remained there even though the Q- hive is about 3m away.
I haven’t checked the Q- hive as it’s only been 4 weeks on Sunday that I performed the split. I think I need to leave it for at least 5 weeks?
Keeping bees is not as easy as I thought.
Mike

 

[Murox]

Hi Murox, they all ready have 2 supers. one nearly full and the second they have started, so we were going to take the full one off and add one or two supers, (opinions differ!!) main concern is that is they are going to be sat in an overcrowded hive for the next week becasue of bad weather then get the swarming head on.
we did an emergency super add this afternoon between showers. so they now have 3...snip...

Yep got it. just highlights the need for a few extra spare frames of drawn comb.

 

[enrico]

I am a bit confused. Why would you think the swarm would not stay in the box you gave them. If they have a queen of any description then they are never going to return to the q- hive. That hive probably has a virgin too.
When the weather warms up and you have a while, go into all the hives you have with the express mission of looking for queen's or eggs and if you find none and there are queen cells then only leave one in each hive. Mating is difficult in this weather so if you don't find anything then don't despair, just close them up again and try again the following week.
When you have laying queen's or you are absolutely sure that a hive is queenless then consider combing to get back to the amount of hives you want.
Hope this helps a bit. Would love to help you out but I am a bit far away!
E

 

[thedozzer]

Yep got it. just highlights the need for a few extra spare frames of drawn comb.

Hi Murox
As its out first full year we only have frames of foundation, no drawn comb until we do an extraction, so they will have to make do, when we were checking the supers last week, as we pulled one of the frames out one of the girls had wax hanging from her wax glands so they are doing their bit.

 

[mike99]

I am a bit confused. Why would you think the swarm would not stay in the box you gave them. If they have a queen of any description then they are never going to return to the q- hive. That hive probably has a virgin too.
When the weather warms up and you have a while, go into all the hives you have with the express mission of looking for queen's or eggs and if you find none and there are queen cells then only leave one in each hive. Mating is difficult in this weather so if you don't find anything then don't despair, just close them up again and try again the following week.
When you have laying queen's or you are absolutely sure that a hive is queenless then consider combing to get back to the amount of hives you want.
Hope this helps a bit. Would love to help you out but I am a bit far away!
E

Thanks Enrico. I understand the basics and have done the courses but it's only when you are faced with a new challenge you realise that there are massive gaps in the knowledge and experiences.
I got my first colony courtesy of Millet and he has helped me loads. I have a mentor and people from my association but the forum enables me to get the advice of so many Beeks with years of experience.
I started with one colony and within 3 weeks I have 2 more. I am going to have to find an out apiary as they are in the garden and 3 is too many for that.
I agree that your location is a bit far for a visit. Never been to the levels but other places in Somerset. Lovely area.

 

[Millet]

Thanks Enrico. I understand the basics and have done the courses but it's only when you are faced with a new challenge you realise that there are massive gaps in the knowledge and experiences.
I got my first colony courtesy of Millet and he has helped me loads. I have a mentor and people from my association but the forum enables me to get the advice of so many Beeks with years of experience.
I started with one colony and within 3 weeks I have 2 more. I am going to have to find an out apiary as they are in the garden and 3 is too many for that.
I agree that your location is a bit far for a visit. Never been to the levels but other places in Somerset. Lovely area.

If you are struggling to find any unmarked Queens Mike i can always nip along when i am passing and cast my eye over a few frames for you..

 

[enrico]

Mike, I would take Millet up on his offer. I think you need to know what you have in each hive and as he supplied the bees and within three weeks you have trebled your colony count it seems fair that he at least helps you out a little with what is what at the moment.
E

 

[Millet]

Mike, I would take Millet up on his offer. I think you need to know what you have in each hive and as he supplied the bees and within three weeks you have trebled your colony count it seems fair that he at least helps you out a little with what is what at the moment.
E

I gave Mike the colony last year not three weeks ago...however I will still help if needed.

 

[enrico]

I gave Mike the colony last year not three weeks ago...however I will still help if needed.

Sorry, wrong end of stick as usual!
E

 

[Millet]

Sorry, wrong end of stick as usual!
E

No problemo Enrico..some things can be and more often than not hard to understand fully unless talking face to face..

 

[thedozzer]

Well we did an inspection today and we did find a few play cups, and about 6 proper looking QC but only one that had a larvae and royal jelly. didn't see HM but there was enough BIAS to suggest she is doing her thing. so i am hoping that they haven't got a full swarm head on!!
We took all the capped frames from one super and extracted, so they now have 3 supers in various stages.

 

[mike99]

If you are struggling to find any unmarked Queens Mike i can always nip along when i am passing and cast my eye over a few frames for you..

Thanks to Millet and Enrico. The weather is a bit changeable this week. I have a new hive due on Tuesday. I will try to identify the queens myself as I think it’s a skill that needs to be developed but if I can’t I will shout out for help from millet. I have seen him spot queens in person and he is fab! I just see a frame of bees and he says “there she is”. Remarkable.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well we did an inspection today and we did find a few play cups, and about 6 proper looking QC but only one that had a larvae and royal jelly. didn't see HM but there was enough BIAS to suggest she is doing her thing. so i am hoping that they haven't got a full swarm head on!!
We took all the capped frames from one super and extracted, so they now have 3 supers in various stages.

Queens will carry on laying until the swarm takes off
The evidence of QC's including at least one with a larva in suggests too me that they are well into swarming mode

 

[eltalia]

Queens will carry on laying until the swarm takes off
(edit)

Queens can be found to be laying immediately prior to swarm issue, yet will they
is only something bees determine.
Saying they **will** implys a departure from what is accepted - through evidential
outcomes - they do not. It also runs against what we know of swarms lodging at
their new home, cells are built overnight yet eggs aren't seen until after a few days
later.
Not unusual though you say you see different as in short space of reads it does
appear such is habitual order for yourself - generating conflicting observations, like.
Is it possible an audit of your past utterances would show 10,000 or so more
examples to this newest instance?
Whatever, it is notable for one so relatively new to the game - and only over a few
backyard colonys - to have accquired this vast domain of knowledge over so many
rare indeed circumstance(s). You would have to be "Special", I guess. A value
precious to those equally so rare among the enquiring scribes.

/slow winx/
/curtsies/

Bill

 

[enrico]

Queens can be found to be laying immediately prior to swarm issue, yet will they
is only something bees determine.
Saying they **will** implys a departure from what is accepted - through evidential
outcomes - they do not. It also runs against what we know of swarms lodging at
their new home, cells are built overnight yet eggs aren't seen until after a few days
later.
Not unusual though you say you see different as in short space of reads it does
appear such is habitual order for yourself - generating conflicting observations, like.
Is it possible an audit of your past utterances would show 10,000 or so more
examples to this newest instance?
Whatever, it is notable for one so relatively new to the game - and only over a few
backyard colonys - to have accquired this vast domain of knowledge over so many
rare indeed circumstance(s). You would have to be "Special", I guess. A value
precious to those equally so rare among the enquiring scribes.

/slow winx/
/curtsies/

Bill

I am sure you are writing in Russian and then using Google translate! Tried using Google translate on your script but it just crashed the computer
E