Wild bees with...what? Nosema perhaps?

[Marcusatbrig]

Hi All.
I am an interloper on the forum looking for some advice. I live in Norfolk and for the last eight years have had a colony of wild bees in residence in a blocked off chimney in my house (great asset for pollination of my apples and pears!). Apart from a biannual swarm to get rid of new queens we have not had to pay them any attention.

Around about the beginning of January, just as the really cold snap ended, we started to get bees coming down our proper (unblocked) chimney during the day and crawling towards the light the window in our living room, where after a bit of feeble fluttering, they died. They were expelling what looks like faeces (brown, opaque, smells of honey, stains the carpet something rotten). The only other time we have had the odd straggler down the chimney has been summer swarming time.

Is it likely that they are just trying to swarm but the temperature is too cold to fly and so they just crawl around a bit. Can anyone give any advice on what it might be and what we should do, if anything. On mild days, like today, we can get as many as 40 or 50.

 

[mbc]

Hello Marcus,
Sounds to me like they have nosema and I'm sorry to say I cant think of much you can do about the situation apart from possibly climbing the chimney and giving them a fumadil drench. If this is as unlikely to happen as it sounds then take heart from the knowledge that most colonies suffering from nosema recover naturally as the spring kicks in. If theyre too far gone to recover naturally then I doubt any spiderman antics drenching them in fumadil syrup would help anyway.

 

[Marcusatbrig]

Thanks, mbc. Thought as much! Heartbreaking but hopefully the colony will pull through. If it does, is there likely to be residual disease there come winter 2011/12? Out of interest, is infection likely to have come from nearby, newly introduced hives?

 

[gavin]

Hi Marcus

I'm going to disagree with MBC - it is beekeeping, so I'm allowed. Yes, Nosema is a gut disease of bees, but this is probably just the normal gut contents. Bees cooped up in cold weather need to get out to poop when it warms up, and it seems that your bees are just heading the wrong way. Could you block the chimney with something - even lots of scrunched up newspaper? Maybe without the warm air and light going up it they will all head up and out. Perhaps they've been at home so long they've forgotten the right way out? Is this a second colony perhaps in a second chimney?

The mess on the carpet is 'just' bee poop I think. Anyone putting out the washing on a nice spring day tens of metres from a colony is likely to find the same thing.

Have you had bees in continuous occupation for 8 years? Most colonies die out if not treated for Varroa, so unless you've had gaps some years these bees could be special. Are they dark brown or do they have dark bands?

Swarming is usually something for May and June when the old queen flies off with half the bees, leaving new ones to hacth out after her.

cheers

Gavin

 

[mbc]

Hi Gavin,
The poo on washing lines I've seen could only be described as yellow or khaki, never brown. Brown poo as seen stayning crown boards or hive fronts is suggestive of nosema to my mind.

 

[gavin]

I suspect that the colour depends on the main pollen coming in at the end of the season. It *could* be Nosema, but it doesn't have to be. If you are keen to know save some of the poop (10+ blobs dried in folder paper is fine) and you may find a local beekeeper with a microscope prepared to look for spores.

If it is, then yes, newly introduced bees may have brought it in. Some sources of bees are more cautious than others about where their stock came from (see another thread!).

G.

 

[Skyhook]

Hi Gavin,
The poo on washing lines I've seen could only be described as yellow or khaki, never brown. Brown poo as seen stayning crown boards or hive fronts is suggestive of nosema to my mind.

Also, the fact this has just happened suggests that something has gone wrong- the weather at the moment is quite normal for the time of year.

 

[Marcusatbrig]

Thanks all. Just got in to find 200 or so dead or dying in the living room. If they are desperate for a poo but have dodgy satnav, would they die so quickly.

Gavin - we have a fire every evening so chimney blocking not an option. The bees ARE dark with dark bands. What did you mean by special.

 

[drstitson]

By "special" was meant varroa tolerant bees. and dark bees suggest AMM or native north european strain.

only problem if they have nosema for first time is that comb will now be reservoir for spores.

if they survive, and retrieval of colony not a possibility, then perhaps knocking up a swarm trap to put over their entrance may enable you to collect any swarm this spring to either donate to local association or even to set up your own proper colony in a hive.

 

[gavin]

Doh! I intended to write dark with yellow/orange bands. The uniformly dark brown bees (any banding also being brown) are more likely to be native honeybees. The ones in chimneys and trees in Scotland do tend to be more native than those in other places from what I've seen. Imported strains (often orange banded) have mixed with the original types in many areas.

By special, as drstitson said, I mean that bees will normally succumb to the Varroa mite and the viruses it spreads unless treated. There are some bees around, here and there, that seem to be able to resist Varroa, so maybe yours are like that. I hope that they survive anyway.

Trapping any swarms coming out from a surviving colony would be hard to do directly. I would be tempted to set up a bait box in your garden in the spring if you want to do that.

Now I'm baffled. If your chimney is in use there shouldn't be a colony living up there. Maybe the Nosema (and resulting dodgy satnav) is the explanation after all. If you are curious I could be that beekeeper with a microscope if you want. There is no need to scrape up poop if you have dead bees as well. The bees would do fine.

They might die in your house quite quickly anyway, Nosema or no Nosema. The stress of falling down a chimney and into your living room might itself be too much for them (they are sensitive creatures you know!). They may be dehydrated, starving or otherwise at death's door before their satnav goes haywire.

cheers

Gavin

 

[Leigh]

where in norfolk are you? I'd be happy to put a swarm box in your garden (as would just about any other beekeeper in the locality!).

 

[freethorpe bees]

Gavin,the colony is in a disused chimney!

 

[gavin]

Yeah, well, I did wonder if there might have been a second colony in the second chimney, but I'll go with the faulty Satnav theory instead!

The offer of a Nosema check is still there if you want it.

G.

 

[Marcusatbrig]

Hi Gavin. Will have to wait for tomorrow as had already hoovered the casualties away. Thanks for the offer - will get some samples tomorrow and contact via this thread.
Leigh - I am North Norfolk. What about you?

 

[drstitson]

he said it was a blocked off chimney.

they are apparently going up then down into "live" chimney.

what sort of entrance do they have (apart from the top).

 

[tonybloke]

this actually sounds as if the web between the two chimneys has broken down, allowing ingress by the bees into the 'live' chimney. you may need to get the 'live' flueway lined this year.
rgds, Tony

 

[Leigh]

Marcus - I've sent you a pm

 

[Dishmop]

Perhaps they like the warmer chimney..

 

[Tom Bick]

Hi All.
I am an interloper on the forum looking for some advice. I live in Norfolk and for the last eight years have had a colony of wild bees in residence in a blocked off chimney in my house (great asset for pollination of my apples and pears!). Apart from a biannual swarm to get rid of new queens we have not had to pay them any attention.

Around about the beginning of January, just as the really cold snap ended, we started to get bees coming down our proper (unblocked) chimney during the day and crawling towards the light the window in our living room, where after a bit of feeble fluttering, they died. They were expelling what looks like faeces (brown, opaque, smells of honey, stains the carpet something rotten). The only other time we have had the odd straggler down the chimney has been summer swarming time.

Is it likely that they are just trying to swarm but the temperature is too cold to fly and so they just crawl around a bit. Can anyone give any advice on what it might be and what we should do, if anything. On mild days, like today, we can get as many as 40 or 50.

Dont wish to cause alarm and this may not happen to you as the chimney the bees are in is sort of blocked but look at this past thread http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5543&highlight=bees+chimney