Why won't my bees draw out the supers?

[Ewok]

How strong are your hives?

Are they chock full of bees so they can move into the supers?

Yup all hives are bursting & the bees are staying in the supers, just not drawing it out????

I've now been given some drawn comb to add to each super so hopefully they'll take the hint ?& draw out the rest.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Queens59,
You need to go to wide spacings AFTER the frames have been drawn out using narrow spacers. If your mentor has been keeping bees for a while he may have forgotten this as he uses old super comb every year. With wide spacing the comb is too far apart until some comb is drawn hence the brace comb you are getting.

My suggestion is to use narrow spacers this year. Once the honey is extracted you can go to wide and then use less frames; the spare frames can then be used on another super.

 

[spughawk]

As a direct measure I agree remove the Q ex.

Where did the super foundation come from?

I ask as mine is from Kemble and I am working comb honey only so am offering every colony needing supering a super (poly) of foundation on the widest width, (Manley) so what I am saying is I am constantly challenging the bees with the worst case situation and am having no problems.

I have not had to remove an excluder yet.

Draw your own conclusions.

PH

Hi Poly Hive, i have 2 swarms on fresh foundation both have drawn a brood and a half 1 has 2 supers the other has 1, all my foundation comes from Thornes.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

I've also never had a problem getting foundation drawn. I get mine from Thornes and my surplus wax converted each year into "Premier Foundation" as this is cheaper.

I've now been given some drawn comb to add to each super so hopefully they'll take the hint ? & draw out the rest.

This should encourage them to go up and do something. I've found hives where the bees are up in supers of foundation and not doing much. They are up in the supers because it is hot but the bees are still working actively in the super below which is where all the work is happening.

Are the bees working on the end frames of your 14x12?

Another point to note is that if you have a mass emergence of brood on a frame sometimes the bees will stuff the cells full of nectar before the queen can lay in the cells so the need for the bees to draw fresh comb is much reduced.

This year has been quite interesting as in the hot spells when there have been good nectar flows the brood nests of several colonies have collapsed inward under the weight of stores collected. This means double brood chamber colones with queens laying in effectively ending up as single brood box colonies with a deep super full of honey!

Also, the nectar flow has decreased in strength as the ground is slowly drying out and we have had no decent rain for a while...

 

[susbees]

Spray the foundation with a little syrup? Foundationless here so don't know much about it but read it somewhere (probably here ).

 

[MuswellMetro]

Queens59,
You need to go to wide spacings AFTER the frames have been drawn out using narrow spacers. If your mentor has been keeping bees for a while he may have forgotten this as he uses old super comb every year. With wide spacing the comb is too far apart until some comb is drawn hence the brace comb you are getting.

My suggestion is to use narrow spacers this year. Once the honey is extracted you can go to wide and then use less frames; the spare frames can then be used on another super.

or instead of narrow spacer you can use wide spacers stagered to give you the same spacing then revert to end on for wide once they have drawn

 

[Ewok]

Are the bees working on the end frames of your 14x12?

Another point to note is that if you have a mass emergence of brood on a frame sometimes the bees will stuff the cells full of nectar before the queen can lay in the cells so the need for the bees to draw fresh comb is much reduced.

This year has been quite interesting as in the hot spells when there have been good nectar flows the brood nests of several colonies have collapsed inward under the weight of stores collected. This means double brood chamber colones with queens laying in effectively ending up as single brood box colonies with a deep super full of honey!

They have drawn the end 14X12s & filled them with nectar which is quickly being capped - I'll extract it when it's fully capped.

One of my hives has swarmed & we lost the clipped queen. but the bees are still working & are filling the brood area with nectar so fast, I doubt if there will be any laying area by the time the new queen is mated! - I've given them a frame of fresh foundation - hopefully that'll keep them busy!

 

[beebreeder]

That expains a lot, with no brood and no eggs/larvae to care for the whole force of bees forage and bring in massive amounts of honey, no need to move it up with no queen present, when your new queen comes into lay they will move it up to give her room to lay.
kev

 

[BKF Admin]

Nice post and pics Muswell,a picture paints a thousand words

 

[mbc]

That expains a lot, with no brood and no eggs/larvae to care for the whole force of bees forage and bring in massive amounts of honey, no need to move it up with no queen present, when your new queen comes into lay they will move it up to give her room to lay.
kev

I agree.
The bees will draw out foudation when they need it , not to a beekeepers planned timetable.
One trick to help them is to move the middle frames, once theyve started being drawn out , to the outside and the foundatiion into the middle where the bees will find it easier to build comb above the heat of the brood nest

 

[mbc]

Nice post and pics Muswell,a picture paints a thousand words

A dummy board in a super is superfluous

 

[OXFORDBEE]

One of my hives has swarmed & we lost the clipped queen. but the bees are still working & are filling the brood area with nectar so fast, I doubt if there will be any laying area by the time the new queen is mated.

Totally normal behaviour. It is suprising how much/quickly a colony with a virgin can stuff into brood combs once brood has emerged.

when your new queen comes into lay they will move it up to give her room to lay.

That all depends on if there is a flow to encourage the bees to draw foundation once the virgin has mated. If the brood combs contain nectar being processed to honey then the bees will create regions of empty polished cells for the newly mated queen to lay in as the nectar is condensed into honey...

If the nectar has been processed to capped honey and the virgin gets mated at the tail end of the flow you might have to think positively and be grateful that you don't have to provide so much winter feed.

You could always take the combs full of honey out of the hive and replace them with foundation... and feed..

 

[Queens59]

Queens59,
You need to go to wide spacings AFTER the frames have been drawn out using narrow spacers. If your mentor has been keeping bees for a while he may have forgotten this as he uses old super comb every year. With wide spacing the comb is too far apart until some comb is drawn hence the brace comb you are getting.

My suggestion is to use narrow spacers this year. Once the honey is extracted you can go to wide and then use less frames; the spare frames can then be used on another super.

Thank-you...I wish my mentor had thought to mention that...! I have been in and changed them over - luckily the girls are so gentle, they were just wandering around looking puzzled!

 

[Queens59]

Thankyou!!!! That is so clear, I will know in future.

I'm flying a bit. As I'm housebound a local beekeeper offered to mentor me at home, but never answers email/telephone etc...or if she does it's 3 weeks late! As someone else said on here a book is fine but not as good as experience! This forum is marvellous. Again, thanks for going to so much trouble

 

[MuswellMetro]

Thank-you...I wish my mentor had thought to mention that...! I have been in and changed them over - luckily the girls are so gentle, they were just wandering around looking puzzled!

why the need for two types of spacers, wide spacers are designed to give you either wide or narrow ( see pitcures on this threed) 37mm if you stgger them or 47 mm end on for 8 frames per box

if you need 9 frames per box just use wide/narrow @37mm as per below then rota the narrows to be end on with wides and you have 9 frams per box


PS MBC, the dummy is there only to stop them rattling about in the car

 

[louiseww]

I am a novice, first year with bees. Went to the local apiary meeting yesterday and the bees were doing some strange stuff on one hive. Using propilis to seal all the supers up and storing lots of honey in the brood box. The experienced beekeeper said they seemed to be behaving as though we are going to have a cold spell. I suggested that because of the lack of rain the nectar flow is poor and that may be fooling them into thinking winter is coming! But what do I know???

 

[Ewok]

Spray the foundation with a little syrup? Foundationless here so don't know much about it but read it somewhere (probably here ).

Tried that already - no change.

 

[Ewok]

That expains a lot, with no brood and no eggs/larvae to care for the whole force of bees forage and bring in massive amounts of honey, no need to move it up with no queen present, when your new queen comes into lay they will move it up to give her room to lay.
kev

It was the bees storing nectar/honey in the BB that lead to the queen running out of laying space & swarming. They were going into the super for three weeks before swarming, without drawing it out.


My other two 14X12 hives are not far behind, but hopefully the drawn comb that I've given them in the super & some new BB foundation will give them more laying space in the BB.

 

[MuswellMetro]

It was the bees storing nectar/honey in the BB that lead to the queen running out of laying space & swarming. They were going into the super for three weeks before swarming, without drawing it out.


My other two 14X12 hives are not far behind, but hopefully the drawn comb that I've given them in the super & some new BB foundation will give them more laying space in the BB.

I think the forum is running out of ideas

If you put one frame of the super foundation in the brood, do you think they would start to draw it...then conitnue to draw if it is then repalced in the super ...or get another hive to start the intial drawing?

 

[Hivemaker.]

When there queen gets mated they will draw the foundation if they need to.