Why use pollen patties?

[busybee53]

Really good information Finman. That helps me a lot. I understand that you unite small hives to make bigger colonies but can you please explain what you mean about starting with 5 - 6 BOXES. Is that two boxes with brood and four supers per colony?

 

[richardbees]

I start patty feeding on second week of April when most of snow has melted away.

I don't see why we should follow FinM's example in the UK, where my bees are out and about on sunny days from January onwards....crocus, pussy willow etc.

Maybe this contributes to "winter losses" and poor Honey yields when the weather changes?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

never come across a pollen shortage over here, you may want to boost it but there always seems to be plenty.

 

[Finman]

Really good information Finman. That helps me a lot. I understand that you unite small hives to make bigger colonies but can you please explain what you mean about starting with 5 - 6 BOXES. Is that two boxes with brood and four supers per colony?

Our main yield starts about 25.6. when raspberry starts blooming. Some rape fields start too. After 10.7. every landscape is in abundant bloom up to 28.7.
All is at the end 10.8.

To catch to the main flow the hive needs foragers, home bees and brood.

Foragers get tired soon and die. Home bees get older and start to forage.
Brood broduce new home bees. The hive need to be in balance and I join hives.

Main yield season is about 5 weeks long.

When bees forage in last week of June, they has been layed and feeded at the first half of May.
Did you have 5 or 15 frames brood then, it rules what they can forage 6 weeks later.

The hive at the last week of June needs 5-6 box bees and 8-15 frames brood.

I may arrange later hive size. I may add one box mere bees if I feel so.

To get a swarm productive it needs 2 box bees and all age brood 5-8 frames.
For main yield I join all swarm and make big colonies.

To get good yield add the swarm to the big hives which needs brood or foragers.
.
To keep 1 or 2 box swarm is wasting of bees.

 

[Finman]

never come across a pollen shortage over here, you may want to boost it but there always seems to be plenty.

We have too but bees cannot fly in rain and in cold weather.

I have read that you have everything perfect in Uk except the yield. But I suppose that you have too much hives on same pastures.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

luckily many here are not too concerned about yield, for me it well down the list of things I worry about, if fact it is pretty close to the bottom. When I kept bees in africa, yields were huge, but beekeeping was poor. Hives were taller than men and the yields would make yours look tiny. Each area of the world is different and it needs different approaches for different areas. What works for you may be totally wrong elsewhere.

 

[richardbees]

Our main yield starts about 25.6

This is why I don't agree with using Finmans Pollen patties in the UK. Half my honey crop comes in April/May starting probably 15 weeks ahead of FinMs.

 

[Finman]

Our main yield starts about 25.6

This is why I don't agree with using Finmans Pollen patties in the UK. Half my honey crop comes in April/May starting probably 15 weeks ahead of FinMs.

And build up starts 6 weeks earlier. So you should have 8 frames of brood in February. That one box full.

Write to my recipe name UK- National Patty

If you have yield only in Spring., you should move the hives to better pastures.

.

 

[Finman]

l What works for you may be totally wrong elsewhere.

Yes, but here guys say that I am mad with my systems.

Selection of pastures is the most important when I hunt for yields.

Farmers here actually cut all willows. I have not enough pollen in May.
Bees do not fly very far in cold weather.

1 km from me there is a beekeeprs who has enormous amount of land. He favors there willows.
The EU inspector says allways that he should cut willows as weeds. Then he try to explain that they are for bees.

Willow is only pollen here in two first weeks of May. April gives pollen practically nothing.

 

[Finman]

.
Why use protein feeding
do you understand the nutrition of bees
do sugar feeding add brood rearing
what are aminoacids.
what is the role of hive heat in spring and colony size

Beekeepers are quite sure that they understand these things but I have not much sense in discussion in this meaning. 'And mostly it is vain to tell to guys., They do not get it.

When I see patty recipes what guys offer on forum, they are quite sad to read.

Guys seek for "easy recipe" and many gives them. But if you undestand a bit nutrion issues, there is no easy solution. The most difficult thing is, do bees eate the stuff. Last spring I put olive oil into patty and bees almost denied to eate it.

I got 25 kg BeeFeed stuff to evalutae how it works. It di not worked. Bees atemy recipe 100% more. Even if I mixed BeeFee into my patty, bees did not like it.

The more bees eate patty the more they make brood.

to have 20 frames brood in spring tells that is good truff in that meaning that I got living bees with stuff and not dead larvae or porous brood surface. It really had needed nutritions. Bees got willow pollen too from nature the amount of patty what the hive ate, was huge.

.

 

[Finman]

.
How do you see have your bees enough pollen

The cycle of brood is quite long. It is 3 weeks. Bees feed every day larvae and every day emerges new workers which nees pollen.

If bees have not enough pollen, they eate some larvae and finaly all, if necessary.

Lack of pollen you see how much holes brood area has. If feeding is continuous, there are not holes in capped brood.

Bees need pollen stores in combs that they go over bad weathers. One week rain is quite normal in my country. It had happened sometimes that when willow blooms 3 weeks, bees can fly on few days.

One year spring was too early. Willow bloomed in April and bees cannot go to willows not at all because temps were the same as usual, about 10C.

Like I said, when I start patty feeding, wood lands are covered with snow. My cottage yard is half covered with snow. You start or not, but you cannot know that weather is next week of after 4 weeks. You just start it.

In many years spring is so good that actually now feeding was not needed. When bees eate patty, they get huge stores of pollen into combs. But when summer starts, there is no pollen stores in hives. They have turned to workers.

Yes, you can see the nutrition level how much brood area has holes.

 

[Finman]

.
Australia and New Zealand hace researched much patty feeding. I have used much their knowledge. Last informatjon I got from Egyptian bee professor (magnesium and date).

The problem of vitamins revieled out when I looked the contents of royal milk last spring.

USA is too more southern country than UK, and they have made most research.

Yes, in UK everything is great in beekeeping since Btother Adam times. Only yields are on minimum level. Remember that when you do not want new knowledge.

In my country I proposed that let's make a booklet about "Nutrition of Bees". And we will do it during this winter. It will be based on facts of reseaches.

Austrian doctor De Groot revieled 1953 in Greman university, how beehive uses its pollen and what kind of pollen they need and how much.
http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/pollen/nutrition.html


USA made first tests 1977 about pollen patty.


When I started patty feeding, it took many years before I understood how it workss. It is very difficult to do in practice.

The smartest guys saved in sugar and they get mold patties. Then they are angry to me that their hives are full of blue mold.
One guy wanted my addres wher to send a bill if he kills his hives. I wrote that don't do something what you do not understand.

Guys do not understand that if you mix syrup and living yeast, why it do not ferment. Many guys ask how to get syrup over winter that it doest not get mold or not ferment. "Add sugar," is the right answer and "keep the cap closed."

Very few know what is amino acid.

.

 

[aberreef]

Great information Finman, thank you for taking the time to post

I'm planning to feed patties in the newyear and will use your recipe if I can source all the ingredients.

 

[aberreef]

There's plenty of pollen for sale on fleabay but I'm guessing this isn't sterile and would risk introducing pathogens. Is it possible to irradiate it at home somehow or' failing that, where can I buy irradiated pollen from?

 

[fiftyjon]

.
Pollen patty recipe

2 kg dry yeast
1 kg soya flour
1 kg irradiated pollen

4 kg sugar as 2:1 syrup
2-3 dl rape oil (bees did not accept olive oil)
one multivitamin pill
one multi B-vitamin pill
one mangesium pill

30% of sugar should be fructose. It takes moisture from hive air and keeps
patty soft.
Date fruits are cheaper than fructose and bees seems to love it. It has 80% sugar. Put date into hot water that it softens.

The colony eate 0,5 - 1,0 kg paty/ week. I feed them 7 weeks = total 3-5 kg/hive.

Finman,

As it seems difficult to source irradiated pollen in the UK, can the recipe be modified with a subsitute?

I do appreciate that there have been probably hundreds of recipes in amongst various threads but your experience and help is appreciated.

 

[Tribesman]

Hi,
I'm in Ireland, I want to make up some pollen paties this year for the first time to try it out but cannot get dried brewers Yiest anywhere here. Maybe there is a supplier on the other side of the Irish Sea that might be willing to send it over.
Open to suggestions!!
Thanks!

 

[Finman]

.
Horse keepers use dry yeast. Have you looked their supliers' homepagers?

 

[mbc]

.
Horse keepers use dry yeast. Have you looked their supliers' homepagers?

I agree. Specialist horse feed suppliers will usually get it in on request even if they dont carry it.

 

[Hombre]

@Finman, I notice your shift in balance of patty ingredients from:

soya flour and brewers yeast, in previous years,
to
brewers yeast and soya flour, this year.

This and other changes, such as pressed dates as a source of fructose.

The implication being that dried yeast is more beneficial than previously thought?

Regarding yeast; have you any views regarding the type of dried yeast, a baking yeast or a beer brewing yeast etc?

How viable, in your opinion is there in making up a yeast dough and growing the yeast like you might for a sour dough mixture, to increase the effective volume of the yeast available and then briefly raising it's temperature, say in a microwave oven to kill the ferment?

Your persistence in 'This Island average beekeeper'.education programme is admirable. Nothing vain in it, keep it up

It seems that the yeast will help to break down the glutten in the flour, making it that much more digestible; presumably also the case for bees. Not only that, but will the presence of the yeast contribute to a degree of inversion of the sugars present?

Questions, questions, I know but I seek answers, albeit less rigorously, like yourself.
= = =
Thought for the day:
In winter, having an open mind often means that you need a hat, to keep your head and ears warm.

 

[Finman]

@Finman, I notice your shift in balance of patty ingredients from:

soya flour and brewers yeast, in previous years,
to
brewers yeast and soya flour, this year.

My yeast is baking yeast and meant to baking machines. The stuff has no special purpose. I just got it from factory.

This and other changes, such as pressed dates as a source of fructose.

100 g dry date has glugose 11%, fructose 14,5 % and sacharose 10,5% Total sugar is 63% in dry dates http://www.triedtastedserved.com/dried-fruits/dried-dates.php

It seems to have flavor what bees like.

.

The implication being that dried yeast is more beneficial than previously thought?

I just happened to have a big yeast store what I need to consume. Soya is good but it hardens the patty if you use it too much-
Yeast patty is soft and it is easy to bite. Fructose takes moisture from hive air. Without it patty dry up and returns hard.

Regarding yeast; have you any views regarding the type of dried yeast, a baking yeast or a beer brewing yeast etc?

I have used living moist yeast too, but it has really much water.

How viable, in your opinion is there in making up a yeast dough and growing the yeast like you might for a sour dough mixture, to increase the effective volume of the yeast available and then briefly raising it's temperature, say in a microwave oven to kill the ferment?
[/quote]

No.It is impossible to grow yeast at home and no reason.

Some years ago I first waked up the dry yeast but it made quite bad stink to the patty and to house and to the bee yard.
Then I poured dry yeast to syrup and it remain inactive all the tim.
50% sugar content keeps the yeast silent.

It seems that the yeast will help to break down the glutten in the flour, making it that much more digestible; presumably also the case for bees. Not only that, but will the presence of the yeast contribute to a degree of inversion of the sugars present?

Yeast must be inactive in the patty. It cannot brake anything.