Why use pollen patties?

[Finman]

.

My formula seems complex but bees love it. You may try "keep it simple" but bees will not eate it. The amount of brood derives from amount of patty eaten.

Guys offer many kind of recipes and I have tried too them during 8 years.
But they do not work. Moisture of patty is important.

Complex and complex. You pour the stuffs into douch machine and machine makes it.

I remember last spring whe a hive ate very quickly the patty. Them I found 20 frames of brood there. Brood frames were in 3 langstroth boxes.

To rear 20 frames of brood they need 20 frames full of pollen.

.

 

[Finman]

.
Dry yeast has about 50% raw protein. It is high.

Yeast has quite good amino acid balance to bees but for example yeast has not much vitamins.

http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=26&lang=en

 

[Tribesman]

I agree. Specialist horse feed suppliers will usually get it in on request even if they dont carry it.

Thanks for that, I will try there!

 

[Tribesman]

.
Horse keepers use dry yeast. Have you looked their supliers' homepagers?

Thanks for that Finman!

 

[Hombre]

Last year I set out to use Finman's recipe from a year or two earlier where the balance was essentially soya flour, brewers yeast powder and sugar. My balance was nearer 50:50 brewers yeast powder and soya flour, because I'm a bit perverse and like to experiment a little too, so I can understand where Finman is coming from and am willing to follow his line of thinking.

I have just taken delivery of dried yeast and pitted dates (no stones) ordered Friday evening and delivered this morning. So prices, delivery speed and charges are quite reasonable.

buywholefoodsonline.co.uk

SKU 16945 Dates Pitted Free Flow 1kg £2.98
SKU19997 DCL Active Dried Yeast 500g £3.60 (3 x = £10.80)
Shipping £2.99 (order weight less than 2.75kg) + £0.50 VAT on shipping

Price on dried yeast, tinned with shelf life of 2 years from date of manufacture - 06 July 2012, so more than good enough for this spring and next if you don't use it all.

Not sure if my Date were the best buy, but there was plenty to choose from and 1/4 the price of a box of dates with stones from the local supermarket.

So no excuses, get weaving folks. I'll drop a pattie in with the indicative or essential fondant in early to mid January and resupply as necessary.

= = =

Any valid views why with a much higher sugar content, the two functions might not be combined? I seem to recollect that there is a commercial product that follows this line, but like a lot of things premium prices don't tend to engage my attention for very long.

Your thoughts on this aspect would be appreciated Finman.

 

[Finman]

Your thoughts on this aspect would be appreciated Finman.

All which has meaning is consumption of patty. If bees like to eate itl, it is then allright.
You know it better

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Last year I set out to use Finman's recipe from a year or two earlier where the balance was essentially soya flour, brewers yeast powder and sugar. My balance was nearer 50:50 brewers yeast powder and soya flour, because I'm a bit perverse and like to experiment a little too, so I can understand where Finman is coming from and am willing to follow his line of thinking.

I have just taken delivery of dried yeast and pitted dates (no stones) ordered Friday evening and delivered this morning. So prices, delivery speed and charges are quite reasonable.

buywholefoodsonline.co.uk

SKU 16945 Dates Pitted Free Flow 1kg £2.98
SKU19997 DCL Active Dried Yeast 500g £3.60 (3 x = £10.80)
Shipping £2.99 (order weight less than 2.75kg) + £0.50 VAT on shipping

Price on dried yeast, tinned with shelf life of 2 years from date of manufacture - 06 July 2012, so more than good enough for this spring and next if you don't use it all.

Not sure if my Date were the best buy, but there was plenty to choose from and 1/4 the price of a box of dates with stones from the local supermarket.

So no excuses, get weaving folks. I'll drop a pattie in with the indicative or essential fondant in early to mid January and resupply as necessary.

= = =

Any valid views why with a much higher sugar content, the two functions might not be combined? I seem to recollect that there is a commercial product that follows this line, but like a lot of things premium prices don't tend to engage my attention for very long.

Your thoughts on this aspect would be appreciated Finman.

Can you remind us of recipe your going to make those ingredients from that site seem good value, I don't any pollen etc yet....

 

[Hombre]

Use Finman's recipe at post #20 of this thread and instead of the irradiated pollen just make up the pollen weight with extra yeast and soya flour.

if you are missing one of the vitamins either buy them in or miss them out, but do your best. Honey from your own bees and a few drops of lemongrass oil can also help to make the pattie more interesting to the bees.

Take the weights and measures and reformat them as proportions, preferably by weight and make up as much or as little as you want. Document any changes you make and note the results. Normally the weaker colonies will be less inclined to consume it, so their uptake may start to happen later. Once started you have a responsibility to keep going until the bees are bringing in sufficient pollen for their own use. The colony growth is likely to be accelerated and so swarming could happen earlier than expected as they start to become overcrowded.

So there are consequences and you must be prepared to handle them. The object is a bigger colony to meet nectar flows, not bigger swarms.

Follow Finman's advice. understand what he is doing, what and why he is rejecting or improving things that he did in previous years and don't constantly re-invent the wheel unnecessarily.

Last year my bees were building up well, but I was set back by the weather and my planning fizzled out as I went from colony build up to colony survival mode as the incessant rain took hold and I found that I wasn't quite as prepared for anything as I should have been.

 

[itma]

...
Price on dried yeast, tinned with shelf life of 2 years from date of manufacture - 06 July 2012, so more than good enough for this spring and next if you don't use it all.
...

"Active Dry" yeast would more accurately be described as actively dried - i.e. by heat.
But the marketing guys came up with a better idea...

It was invented as a dried ingredient for the US military.
Accordingly, its true shelf life is in the decades if kept sealed (i.e. dry).
Seal any open packs really well if trying to keep it.

Don't be tempted to use it for baking - instant mix yeast has much less dead yeast (so produces less 'yeasty' taste), but for baking choose an instant mix one without bread-machine additives (Doves Farm is clean) - read the label small print1

 

[dpearce4]

"Active Dry" yeast would more accurately be described as actively dried - i.e. by heat.
But the marketing guys came up with a better idea...

It was invented as a dried ingredient for the US military.
Accordingly, its true shelf life is in the decades if kept sealed (i.e. dry).
Seal any open packs really well if trying to keep it.

Don't be tempted to use it for baking - instant mix yeast has much less dead yeast (so produces less 'yeasty' taste), but for baking choose an instant mix one without bread-machine additives (Doves Farm is clean) - read the label small print1

Is that the same with all dried yeast? will last for years if kept in a sealed container?

 

[itma]

Is that the same with all dried yeast? will last for years if kept in a sealed container?

Active Dry will last longest - each bead has a protective shell of heat-killed yeast (not so for the instant mix types). Humidity is the enemy for all dry yeasts - more so with the instant mix ones.

Yeast descriptions are rubbish - "fast action" etc.
What I call 'instant mix' can be directly mixed with the dry flour. "Active Dry" needs to be coaxed into rehydration with warm water and sugar before use - you have to break through the shell of dead stuff!

However, yeast is cheap - especially compared to the cost of the flour, etc you mix it with. So for baking you shouldn't need to take a chance on the yeast letting you down instead of rising!

 

[dpearce4]

For my baking i always use fresh.

If you go to the bakery section of any supermarket and ask them, they by law have to give you some for free. Some very old act that has never been repealed. So i never buy it for cooking.

I am buying it for my pollen patties though and looking at largish quantities of brewers yeast which i dont want to waste if i dont use it all so was looking at how i can keep the left overs for next year.

 

[Hombre]

The dried yeast that cited comes in 500g hermetically sealed cans and has a declared shelf life of two years from date of manufacture.

I would think that trying to keep a part opened can for any length of time would be a bit of a hiding to nothing. Use it or lose it. if you think you might need it, then feed it . . .

Not being rude, but sort of: pay up/put up, shut up or brew up. It sounds catchy. Making patie then there should be no problem with that part can being left, just bung it in - for extra goodness!

 

[Little John]

It's not the cheapest source of ingredients, but Holland and Barrett are often conveniently situated on your local High Street. Their 460g Yeast Powder is £4.45 and 500g Soya Flour £1.85 .

They also do Vitamin C powder - good for adding to syrup - 170g for £6.69 Normally has a 3 to 4 year expiry date, but I reckon that could be doubled if kept in the fridge.

LJ

 

[ultreen1]

Would the home made patty be any better than the ones you can buy on most beek websites? The recipe seems simple enough but why not buy £25-£30 in pollen patties? What sort of weight would you get if you halved finmans quantities, 5kg?6kg?

 

[Hombre]

Around 5kg, but you knew that already from adding the figures and dividing by two.

If you make in bulk, then you will save on the ingredients by making patties yourself, but should probably factor in the labour and the use of a dedicated cement mixer if you really have a lot to make.

You can of course oil the wheels of commerce but you lose the flexibility to modify the composition of the recipe to meet your own requirements and probably pay more in the long run.

As always, it;s pretty much horses for courses. A balance between convenience, availability, flexibility and price. that and a big dollop of satisfaction from doing it yourself and having the bees gobble it up convincingly and thriving into the bargain.

 

[Davea]

Finman

Where do you get irradiated pollen from?
It seems to be unavailable in the UK.
Thanks

 

[Finman]

Finman

Where do you get irradiated pollen from?
It seems to be unavailable in the UK.
Thanks

I get it from our beekeeping stuff sellers. It seems to be a bad business to them and so it is sometimes difficult to get.

 

[PBee]

Finman

Where do you get irradiated pollen from?
It seems to be unavailable in the UK.
Thanks

For next year you could make/buy a pollen trap and freeze your own fresh pollen. From my limited experience a good hive can collect from 0.5 - 1 kg per day in optimum conditions.

 

[Davea]

Thanks Finman.
Could you give their name so I contact them directly?