Which sublimator/vapouriser?

[Hawklord]

How does vapour move through the hive if the crown board and floor is sealed?

 

[pargyle]

Not sure how you've got away with it so far but no there's been no comment from the H&S nuts!

You know, the ones that tell you;
all knives must be blunt,
matches not to be kept in quantities of more than 5,
children must not climb trees, e.t.c e.t.c.

I did think, that you had the intention of rattling some cages with the post but the usual suspects must have you (and possibly me) on "Ignore"!

I think everyone on here is now well aware of the potential hazards of sublimating OA .. I'm not an H&S 'nut' but it pays to be cautious when using this stuff .. anyone who has used an OA sublimator and has got a whiff of the stuff will know how unpleasant it is and common sense will, hopefully, ensure that it's not something that happens twice - and certainly not on a regular basis.

Just be careful with it ... I got a very small whiff when we were trying the Varrox out to see how long it took to evaporate - and an unexpected breeze sent a drift of the 'smoke' in our direction. Even that, well watered down and a good 6 feet away from the cup, sent us both into coughing fits. Mask on for me if I ever do it again ....

I've seen nothing on this thread that suggests anyone is doing anything stupid .. past threads have been full of 1di0ts suggesting that you can use a sublimator with scant regard for your lungs and nervous system and it is these people who have, generally, been taken to task.

I think, if you feel that there is a need for a treatment, that OA sublimation is one of the least invasive and most effective treatments we have available - as a non-treater it's the one product that I would consider if it became necessary. I've seen the Varrox in use and the bees really got over the treatment in minutes and the mite drop (the hive was badly infested to the point where you could actually see the mites on the bees) was exceptional ... the inspection board the following day was black with dead varroa - far too many to count... the colony was treated again over two more brood cycles with decreasing results and went on to thrive.

 

[midnight sun]

How does vapour move through the hive if the crown board and floor is sealed?

Bees simply fan their wings to get rid of it. (you can hear them at the start but soon settle) The circulation of air from the bees wings takes the Oxalic with it.
The bees seem to be unaffected and carry on as normal. If you leave the entrance open during the process (I know people will say the instructions say don't, but as an experiment) the bees will carry on foraging and enter the hive as normal.

 

[Karsal]

I've been trying this one out from Germany. Works a treat and its on the Bay.

Oxalic Acid Pans Evaporator 12 V against Varroa mites new aluminium Bienoxal

 

[stucat]

What's the worst that could happen ?
Surely it either shorts and stops working or shorts and starts to melt wires. No big deal either way since its not left unattended.
I've had some heavy duty jump leads, an aluminium bar, an old angle grinder side handle and 2 glow plugs sat in a bag for 2 years as I was going to make a better one, but I just can't find a good enough reason not to use this one.
If it survives treating 31 hives this winter and goes into its 4th season the H+S be dammed, I'll consider it a blinding success. Let's face it , its a varrox without a handle or black stove paint and my "wing" says "Coca Cola" not "varrox".

 

[stucat]

I too got just the one wiff. I tested it when it still had the cigarette lighter fitting on a cable short enough to use in the car. So I tried a half gramme holding it out an open door from the other side. A swirl of wind gave me a mouthful that honestly hurt. Like someone cheese grating your lungs. I use it quite often on woodwork but don't go near it now without gloves goggles and gas mask.
I've had a tiny splash of diluted stuff bit my eye and I promise you , you do not want either the crystal or sublimed vapours of this stuff anywhere near your face.

 

[stucat]

Which made me wonder about the long handles. Since they're not so long as to be a safe distance from the fumes, what do they do ? Then I realised all my hives are stacked cold way, so getting the vapours to the dead centre isn't as important as if they were warm way.
Whatever gizmo you choose to use to sublime OA crystals, I'm just blown away by how much less distressing for the bees it is and how effective it is. It appears to be 100% on a couple of this years swarms. One 4.5 frame swarm had a drop of over 100 a day when it arrived(that's huge, no ?) And had dropped over 800 in 36 hours after treatment, another 150 over 72 hours and now has a drop of 2-3 a week. They were bloody horrible when they first came and now they're the sort of hive that you know you could(but don't) inspect without smoke, gloves or veil and be fine 9 times out of 10.
For brood less periods, vaping is king !

 

[fatshark]

One 4.5 frame swarm had a drop of over 100 a day when it arrived (that's huge, no ?) And had dropped over 800 in 36 hours after treatment ...

That was a swarm of Varroa with phoretic bees ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Which made me wonder about the long handles. Since they're not so long as to be a safe distance from the fumes, what do they do ? Then I realised all my hives are stacked cold way, so getting the vapours to the dead centre isn't as important as if they were warm way.
Whatever gizmo you choose to use to sublime OA crystals, I'm just blown away by how much less distressing for the bees it is and how effective it is...........
For brood less periods, vaping is king !

You can vape with brood too. Three times at five day intervals

 

[Thymallus]

I've yet to try "vaping" but it would seem a good route to head down. I've read on this thread that people have inserts that slide under poly hives, any chance anyone could explain in a little more detail what these are made from and how the varrox or whatever the thingamajig is called fits into it. Would be most appreciated. Or other methods of fixing the thingy under the open mesh whilst standing well back!

 

[pargyle]

I think it was EricA that has made a tray to fit under her poly hives. I have Paynes Polys and I think the way to go with those is to make a tray that goes into the slot that is as standard on the hives for the inspection board but the middle section of it needs to be dropped down for two reasons. Firstly, there would not be room for the sublimation device (whatever you use) to go under the floor and secondly, it needs a bit of space between the mesh floor and the heat of the sublimator or it is going to damage the coating on the mesh - and I seem to remember that it was so hot that it even burnt the bottom of the frames and melted a bit of comb.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. Tis me. I have poly and wood 14x12s and they are all on wooden floors. These have been deepened to allow an aluminium insert underneath the normal varroa monitoring tray. Vape from the back under the omf.

 

[stucat]

Mine are Payne's poly hives sat on pavingstones the unit sits on the paving stone with drop board out. I gaff tape the entrance and at the back.
To bold it off the floor I have a triangle of aluminium can with the point forward of the bowl. Turn the 2 corners down a mm or 2 and it only contacts a wooden hive by the 3 corner legs. It's just to hold the hot bits away from the hive.or tipping over.

 

[stucat]

I've yet to try "vaping" but it would seem a good route to head down. I've read on this thread that people have inserts that slide under poly hives, any chance anyone could explain in a little more detail what these are made from and how the varrox or whatever the thingamajig is called fits into it. Would be most appreciated. Or other methods of fixing the thingy under the open mesh whilst standing well back!

If you have hives on a stand , a tray would help but since mine are on flat surface its easier to remove the drop board and no worries then of melting frames or mesh.

 

[Thymallus]

Mine are on stands about 3foor off the ground with poly floors open mesh. Thinking wooden board to slide under and then "make" something in the middle of the board to sit/slide vaporizer into. Nor worried about removing plastic off mesh floor, just wondering how close to the mesh you need to be?

 

[stucat]

It's roughly 50mm with the mite board removed and apparently that's close enough.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Thinking now, with the number of hives I have, it might be an idea to switch to OA sublimation (definitely cost effective) I've surmounted the underfloor entrance issue and am now looking at what kit is available on the market - forget about that fantastic generator powered Oxalic cannon that HM kindly posted the video of. What device does the forum think is better value/more effective?

Varrox from Agrinova, tablets of OA, I do 3g (3 tablets) under the mesh floor, and I've replaced all the OMF with stainless mesh, and I use a stainless square piece of metal under the varrox.

and I also test my battery, to check the CCA is correct! So I get a good burn, and also gloves and proper mask! (I know many don't bother with a good mask!)

 

[Teemore]

I have been using a borrowed varrox vaporizer since starting beekeeping in 2010. Over the past few years it has been treating in excess of 80 hives annually for a number of beekeepers. It is time consuming to use (particularly when you travel for half an hour to treat two colonies for someone) but very effective, particularly as a mop up after using ApiLife Var in August/September.

 

[Thymallus]

It's roughly 50mm with the mite board removed and apparently that's close enough.

If I understand you correctly you are just placing the vaporizer under an open mesh floor. Or have I misunderstood and you have a board that slides in to help seal when vaporizing?

 

[einsteinagogo]

If I understand you correctly you are just placing the vaporizer under an open mesh floor. Or have I misunderstood and you have a board that slides in to help seal when vaporizing?

I insert a stainless steel thin plate, underneath the OMF, with enough space for the varrox to slide in. I use 3g of OA tablets, pressed into the bowl, I then seal up the entrance, and rear gaps.

and then turn on.