which hive

[pjb1972]

Hi all probably been asked a million times but what would be a good beginner hive also are the polystyrine ones any good as have seen them on paynes website and I also have seen some hives for sale that haven't been used for 4 years that look in good nick are they worth a look sorry for all the questions

 

[deanrpwaacs]

I use polys . It is my first season with them . Give them a coat or two of paint before use . Just be careful when getting the frames off the runners as you can damage the poly , use the opposite frame to lever from . They are quite big though but am looking forward to the bees getting through the winter well . These are my latest ones from the paynes sales that are on now .

 

[Somerford]

Hi all probably been asked a million times but what would be a good beginner hive also are the polystyrine ones any good as have seen them on paynes website and I also have seen some hives for sale that haven't been used for 4 years that look in good nick are they worth a look sorry for all the questions

Well this won't be definitive....

I started with a WBC - a gift that needed restoring. Still have it.

Then went to nationals - which are on balance a good hive for our climate and the supers aren't too hefty when full unlike others (Commercial or Dadant)

Then moved to have a few 14x12s. No real difference other than less need to have half a brood chamber on top. Still have them is use.

Then acquired 2 x 14x12 poly hives - had them 2 summers and 1 winter so far and been amazed at how the bees seem to thrive in them compared with half of the cedar hives I have.

Paynes ? maybe. maisemore have just started to sell Poly hives and having given one the once over it looks good.

The question is are you going to move hives around - if so a 'national' type is best otherwise you can happily use a WBC.

Poly or Cedar ? really up to you. some say Polys don't last, others have the same hives still in use after 30 years +.

There - told you I wouldn't be definitive !

BUT if you get your first frames of bees from a nuc that's National sized I guess that makes your mind up for you.

VBW

Somerford

 

[pjb1972]

Thanks for the replys got a head ache already lol the polys look easier to maintain maybe?

 

[dexter's shed]

I'd opt for mann lake national hybrid, £99 all in

 

[pjb1972]

I'd opt for mann lake national hybrid, £99 all in

Thanks Dexter they look a bargain

 

[pargyle]

Thanks Dexter they look a bargain

Except ... they are a HYBRID so they don't fit with any other national kit. They are made out of cheaper PINE so they will need painting every year.

Personally I'd opt for Poly hives ... I have 6 Paynes and they are nice to use, they are robust and the bees do really well in them. Lot's of benefits. Mine are 14 x 12 so you only need one brood box for them to overwinter. And ... they are in the Paynes sale at present at reduced prices ... £90.10 for a 14 x12 hive with 2 supers.. Spend another £10 and it's free delivery. Yes you will need a few frames but you can pick up seconds in Thornes sale for a reasonable price.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I like poly hives and as mentioned the bees do remarkably well in them. I have both Paynes and Swienty boxes. The Paynes boxes have stupid lugs on the bottom so that you can't nadir a Paynes super, you have to use a wooden one. The Swienty have the same footprint as a timber National so that means they are one frame short but I run 14x12s so it doesn't really make much difference.
They are a b****r to clean though.
Beware the Mann Lake hybrid. There has been a lot of discussion about it here. You are a beginner so might I suggest you avoid confusion. Have a look here http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32774&highlight=mann+lake+national

 

[pjb1972]

Thanks for replying all some one has said bees are more prone to swarm in a poly? Anytruth in it also if in full sun would they get too hot?

 

[pargyle]

@ deanrpwaacs above ... Not sure what you've done with the photos but there's something amiss ...

Anyway - I've never had a problem damaging the poly taking the frames out - what you should be doing is levering against another frame - not the edge of the poly. Use the corner of the bent end of the hive tool under the top bar and lever with the other corner of the hive tool on the top of the top bar of the adjacent frame. Once you have lifted one side of the frame and released it- do the same with the other side and it's then easy to lift the frame out. I have a dummy board at the end of the hive which I take out first by the above method then, having made a space, I slide the next frame along the sliders (sometimes need a bit of extra leverage from the hive tool) and once they are released easy to lift out. It's one of the first things you get taught in a practical course.

Oh .. and don't try and lever up under the ends of the lugs or you will stand a chance of breaking them off - the weakest part of the frame is the joint between the top bar and the sides and that's where they will break.

 

[B+.]

what would be a good beginner hive

Forgive me, but, this is arse about face.
The size of the box is dependent upon the bee you expect to put in it. I recommend that you get some hands-on experience managing a colony throughout the season before you make a decision of what size box you're going to try to shoe-horn them into.
My bees will fill two Langstroth deeps with brood in summer. If you tried to condense those into a single (or even a double National) you'd be asking them to swarm. Different races of bees have different space requirements!

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for replying all some one has said bees are more prone to swarm in a poly? Anytruth in it also if in full sun would they get too hot?

Bees will swarm if they want to in any hive ... one of the things that as a beekeeper you will spend most of your time in spring doing is either trying to stop them or sorting out what they've done when you've missed it. In full sun Poly hives keep the heat out as well as keeping the heat in in winter ... the bees will regulate the interior of the hive at the temperature THEY want - you just make it easier for them in a highly insulated environment. I have a empty super on top of my polys with 100mm of Kingspan in it to help them even further.

I also throw away the flimsy crown board that comes with Paynes and make new ones out of 6mm or 8mm clear polycarbonate. You can then look at your bees without disturbing them.

 

[pjb1972]

Thanks again decisions decisions lol

 

[pargyle]

Forgive me, but, this is arse about face.
The size of the box is dependent upon the bee you expect to put in it. I recommend that you get some hands-on experience managing a colony throughout the season before you make a decision of what size box you're going to try to shoe-horn them into.
My bees will fill two Langstroth deeps with brood in summer. If you tried to condense those into a single (or even a double National) you'd be asking them to swarm. Different races of bees have different space requirements!

Very relevant ... unless, like me, you started with local mongrels from a swarm in which case ... you never know ! And the unpredictability is very exciting - you can always requeen with one of B+'s super bees when you've discovered that they are lazy, horrendously bad tempered, swarm every time you turn your back and are and prone to disease !

I got lucky and mine are lovely to handle, cope with varroa, are disease free, a bit swarmy but relatively productive.

You always have a choice in beekeeping ....get used to changing your mind !

 

[pjb1972]

Thanks pargyle think I'm best not to rush in lol

 

[domino]

When I started I used the same kit as the majority of my association. It just made my life easier if I needed spare kit.

Now I have more of an idea I have made more informed choices to match my style of beekeeping.

 

[dexter's shed]

Except ... they are a HYBRID so they don't fit with any other national kit.

that's a bit like saying langstroth stuff won't fit in a national
of course they won't, they are however the same outer size, so national bases or roof could be used if needed
as the opening post was from what sounded like a new beekeeper, they probably don't have other hives,
it was just a suggestion as that is what was asked for, not an argument between beeks on this,that and the other,

 

[pargyle]

that's a bit like saying langstroth stuff won't fit in a national
of course they won't, they are however the same outer size, so national bases or roof could be used if needed
as the opening post was from what sounded like a new beekeeper, they probably don't have other hives,
it was just a suggestion as that is what was asked for, not an argument between beeks on this,that and the other,

No argument from me ... merely an observation on the advantages or disadvantages of using a particular hive .. as the OP is a new beekeeper I would strongly recommend that they stick to National frames in one form or another as, generally, the advantages of obtaining bees on a 'common' frame size and the ability to buy kit that will match from more than one supplier will outweigh the 'cheap' deal of a 'one off' hive. (IMO) The ML Hybrid is one on it's own ...

If price is the only issue being considered then the Mann Lake basic package is a very viable option .. it just comes with a bit of baggage that a Newbie may not be in a position to either understand or consider.

 

[Nakedapiarist]

When I started I used the same kit as the majority of my association. It just made my life easier if I needed spare kit.

Now I have more of an idea I have made more informed choices to match my style of beekeeping.

I don't think it's possible to overstate as a starter how useful it is to be able to take drawn comb from other bee keepers in the area when all you have is foundation - saved my first swarm.

That doesn't mean necessarily keeping the same type of hive as long as the frames fit - my indoor hive has a crudely made national-wbc converter as I was given a WBC set that hadn't been used for 10 years, as it's indoors I don't need the lifts but the frames are interchangable. Got me out of a hole and I can worry about moving the second brood to national next year.

 

[dexter's shed]

That doesn't mean necessarily keeping the same type of hive as long as the frames fit -

nationals will fit into a national hybrid, but not the other way around