Which bees

[Grizz]

Good evening all.
Im in a dilemma on which type of queen to start with. Previously i have had buckfast which i had for 3 years previously cant say i didnt have any issues as with everything i had ups and downs with each hive.
I have been very fortunate and given a nice secluded place to set up a apiry with my son (who also enojyed the bees i had last time)
So i been looking around and seen a few keeping the british / Euro black and it has me intrigued. Can people with ecperiance advise if these would be good for a semi starter and how they find them, agressivness is a key point as i want my son to enjoy and keep in the hobby years to come.

 

[enrico]

Not much help but I started with what I could get from swarms, over the years I have always kept offspring from my best queens, now I have the quietest best workers. They are not named, they are just all mine! In my opinion it is what you do with what you've got that that pays dividends.
Correct handling is often half the battle.
Gets it luck with whatever you decide
E

 

[For want of a better word]

Not much help but I started with what I could get from swarms, over the years I have always kept offspring from my best queens, now I have the quietest best workers. They are not named, they are just all mine! In my opinion it is what you do with what you've got that that pays dividends.
Correct handling is often half the battle.
Gets it luck with whatever you decide
E

We were fortunate to have native dark bees (Amm) in our area (Lynher Valley) and have selected from these, plus brought in Amm queens from other BIBBA members in the county of Cornwall.

The only aggressiveness I have seen in my colonies is within the NZ Italian colonies that I brought with me from Devon ( South Hams) about 8 years ago. Soon sorted out with requeening.....

Before the usual ninnifish quotes and twists up my comments the NZ are kept in an area dominated by beekeepers who like to import and keep exotics... so I simply keep the Amm in another area, to stop introgerssion/ contamination with exotic genes.
At the end of the day local are generally best as long as you select the best for your local environment.

Yeghes da

 

[madasafish]

I have Buckfasts - descended form a queen from a well known top breeder. I also have one hive of Carniolan descended for a queen bought four years ago. The Carnies start earlier in the season and produce a little more honey but are swarmy. Both are very gentle and non aggressive.

My tests for aggressive and unacceptable bees in a domestic environment: you have to be able to cut the grass and strim round the hives with power mowers/strimmer, knock the hives - and not see any reaction from the bees. There should be no need to wear any protection in my garden from bees except when inspecting.

ANY reaction from any hive and I requeen as soon as I can - with my own queens which are selected to avoid such unpleasant traits.

 

[birdsandbees]

I started out as many do by buying in certain sub species of bee, the usual Fastbucks and then Carniolan, with all subsequent breeding always going dark and with some pretty nasty colonies resulting from these cross breeds I have since just worked with these cross breeds and as others have said re-queened the ones I don't like, I still have one three year old Buckfast queen but the rest are cross breed mongrels.
I am converting to AMM this year though, I figured why fight it, I seem to have a prevalence for dark Bees in the area and most swarms and cut outs have been headed up by quite dark queens, if what I read is true that the background population has 50% AMM genes and I add lots of Pure (or as near as I can get) AMM drones to the area (three apiaries a few miles apart) then I'm going to increase the chances of AMM matings, at least that way its sustainable rather than dealing with grumpy crosses or constant re-queening.
I've preferred the Mongrels to be honest they have been more consistent so the AMM project will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Grizz]

Thank you all for your input and yes i also started with a swarm many years back then went to buckfast. Given i have a totally new start i think im leaning towards the AMM

 

[Swarm]

I started out as many do by buying in certain sub species of bee, the usual Fastbucks and then Carniolan, with all subsequent breeding always going dark and with some pretty nasty colonies resulting from these cross breeds I have since just worked with these cross breeds and as others have said re-queened the ones I don't like, I still have one three year old Buckfast queen but the rest are cross breed mongrels.
I am converting to AMM this year though, I figured why fight it, I seem to have a prevalence for dark Bees in the area and most swarms and cut outs have been headed up by quite dark queens, if what I read is true that the background population has 50% AMM genes and I add lots of Pure (or as near as I can get) AMM drones to the area (three apiaries a few miles apart) then I'm going to increase the chances of AMM matings, at least that way its sustainable rather than dealing with grumpy crosses or constant re-queening.
I've preferred the Mongrels to be honest they have been more consistent so the AMM project will be interesting to see what happens.

Is there any interest in your association? A group of like minded beekeepers will make things easier.

 

[Beefriendly]

i think im leaning towards the AMM

You might wish to consider who you will buy your Amm queens from?
There are very few Amm breeders in the UK and even less who can provide the genuine article with any degree of provenance....however, there are lots of sellers who can provide you with dark British bees that are not Amm's...... if you get my drift.
Amm's are usually nice bees to work with, bit runny on the comb and not very prolific when compared to some of the other strains available.

 

[Stiffy]

Good evening all.
Im in a dilemma on which type of queen to start with. Previously i have had buckfast which i had for 3 years previously cant say i didnt have any issues as with everything i had ups and downs with each hive.
I have been very fortunate and given a nice secluded place to set up a apiry with my son (who also enojyed the bees i had last time)
So i been looking around and seen a few keeping the british / Euro black and it has me intrigued. Can people with ecperiance advise if these would be good for a semi starter and how they find them, agressivness is a key point as i want my son to enjoy and keep in the hobby years to come.

I’ve had both black bees and Buckfast. Both have faults but personally found the Buckfast easiest to keep and out produce the blacks by a mile, others have different experiences I am sure.
I would say, it really depends on what you want from your bees and how you intend to keep them in the future.
Whatever strain you choose , do some research, be critical on your needs and get the best you can.
S

 

[birdsandbees]

Is there any interest in your association? A group of like minded beekeepers will make things easier.

I'm working on it, I am also being quite careful where the first queens come from, I'm also looking to join BIBBA which will hopefully help.

 

[For want of a better word]

I'm working on it, I am also being quite careful where the first queens come from, I'm also looking to join BIBBA which will hopefully help.

BIBBA has been working towards setting up breeding groups so that members CAN get good quality native bees.
There are breeders in Cornwall who will be able to supply queens and there are already members setting up breeding programs in the rest of the UK.

Yeghes da

 

[Beagle23]

I started with a queen who produced an extremely aggressive, unfriendly colony. She left with a swarm after two years leaving her daughter to queen the hive..............six weeks late the temperament of the hive was completely reversed, with calm but busy bees doing their thing.
I don't know how much stock I put in hereditary traits, not much

 

[Grizz]

BIBBA has been working towards setting up breeding groups so that members CAN get good quality native bees.
There are breeders in Cornwall who will be able to supply queens and there are already members setting up breeding programs in the rest of the UK.

Yeghes da

I would really apreciate any info on good suppliers.
I think no matter what there are always pros and cons for each type the buckfast was created as the ultimatehoney bee however with matings been unpredictable you will always end up with something totally different mongrels i guess.. im not a fan of the thiught of buying imported quees all the time and woukd like to be self sufficient at some stage. Maybe going down the totally wrong track ���� i still have plenty of time before the decision and much more to read..

 

[madasafish]

IF you decide to go AMM, the only advertised vendor that I know - with a reputation for quiet bees - can be found by googling "Buy a Native Black Queen"

(There may well be others)