what would you do

[joctcl]

You could come on a forum present a complex problem have folks spend hours trying to dicipher help you and do your own thing in the end

 

[pargyle]

. Vet thinks all the swelling etc is down to an allergic reaction to the catgut dissolving stitches she's had

Not really surprising that she's allergic to anything to do with Cats living with you !

You, sadly, can always tell when they've had enough and it's time to let them go but it doesn't appear much like she's anywhere near that yet .. tough little bugger by the sound of it ! Good luck with her.

 

[pargyle]

Good on you Jenkins. Irishguy make life easier for yourself, Jenkins has a plan just follow it.

+++ About 200 other beekeepers who are watching this thread in the hope that you get it together. FOLLOW THE PLAN .... not what you think....

 

[BrianO]

Ok, this is painfull !

So much good advise ignored and so much time given freely to provide same, my thread re " 4 colonies " any chance of a fraction of the excellent advice given here and I will act on it gratefully !

Thanks in anticipation

 

[Nige.Coll]

Horse and water springs to mind.

The OP seems to operate a fire fighting approach to beekeeping. Not a great way to do things.
IG you have been given good advice just follow what has been said and you stand a chance of having bees in spring.
Don't keep asking other people you will just get confused.

I would print off the instructions and follow them, pin them to the fridge or something so you can't get confused.
Ignoring advice will only burn bridges and next time your in a mess no one will try to help.
I think you have got too many bees too soon.

 

[irishguy]

Sketchy FFS!! read my post, Im busy and can't spend all day nursemaiding you - follow your own plan if you must but you have a choice - either carry on merrily killing your colonies or follow what I've said and maybe we can salvage things - forget the cast swarm, it's not worth spending any time on - try and save your possibly viable colonies:



so:
Hive 1 check in six days if there are queen cells destroy them all Put that frame of brood in hive #4 then paper unite these two

Leave Hive No 2 alone no reticel, no taking anything off, leave super on and leave them expand as you have just taken two whole frames of brood off thus making them once again a weak colony

Hive 3 - 1 check in six days if there are queen cells destroy them all Put that frame of brood back in hive #2 then paper unite these two


Dummy down No4 as per original suggestion but consider feeding a couple of pints 1:1 syrup.
with the others:

Forget the cast! just dummy down to five frames and see what happens
Go in to the two hives with frames of brood added in six days:
No 1 -
Same goes for hive number 3 - but brood frame into # 2 and paper unite with that one.

If no QC's don't do anything and report back here.

No 6 leave well alone, jus a quick check to see if there's plenty of space - if there isn't report back here. Check stores situation - if the have no stores feed a couple of pints 1:1

Maybe in ten days we will have plenty of drawn comb etc to play with then we can address No 6 properly and maybe waste some time on #5

As you seem to have a good supply of xtratherm consider putting a piece (cut to size on top of each crown board under the roof – although the 2 inch stuff would probably sit a bit better.


We need to concentrate on getting hives 2,4 and 6 up to fighting weight, not fret too much about the others – if they shape up, it’s a bonus.

Is that clear enough? if not come back here and ask, no deviations or 'own ideas' let's stick to this shall we or I'll find some method less stressful to raise my blood pressure - I'm training some new recruits the next few days but I'll be on evenings and maybe lunchtime. I'm warning you all the new wave of customs/immigration officers are going to be carrying some deep mental scars!

I think youll blow a gasket after you read this post

Seeing as my bees are 10mins away in my house in country(i stay in town a few nights) i rushed out without my phone with all the details of what ive to do. I didnt follow your plan exactly but close enough. If i had my phone with me, i would have followed your plan to the tee

So, i opened up hive 3, reduced down to 6 frames and put a 4 inch piece of xtratherm insulation in place of the other hives. I also fed with some 1:1 sugar syrup but didnt fill it because they had plenty of stores. I took away rest of the frames to put in other hives.

Hive 2, i opened up and put a brood frame where there was a superframe at end of hive. I forgot to mention this earlier to you. I put super back on and leftalone. I didnt feed this hive because had plenty of stores and had a super on with 3/4 filled honey frames.

Hive1, i opened this up and reduced down to 8 frames and put xtratherm in place where frames are supposed to be. I took the other frames, shook of bees and put aside. Theres a queen excluder on and super. Seeing as this is queenless, the colony cant really grow so no worries of it getting to busy in there, esp with the super on.

Hive no4, opened this up and put 4 good frames in with capped honey, opened honey and lots of room for queen to lay. I left it at 6 frames and insulation as showed in pic. I moved the frames with bees on them into the centre instead of one frame away from the entrance wall liked showed in last pic. I also fed this with feeder with ss

I opened up nucbox next and gave it 3 full frames of stores, and plenty drawn wax for the queen to start laying quickly. I also put small feeder on top of crownboard and filled with with SS. Queen is still there wandering about!

I know you said forget the caste but i had some frames with stores and wax to lay so i have them these 2 frames. The bees where still in the cluster so i shook them into the frames and closed of the space where they where clustering. I fee this a full white plastic feeder also.


I know this isnt the exact plan you gave me but when i was out at the bees, this is what I thought was supposed to be done. It isnt to far of the plan so go easy on me when you read this



One thing i noticed that you or anyone else didnt mention about the closed queen cells. I dodnt know what to do with them so i just left in place. Was i supposed to? Did you have a look at the pics and can you confirm that they are. Going by the books and the QCs i seen before the swarm, im 99% surer they are but clueless as how to they got there if there wasnt any larvae to make them with.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

O.K. not too bad, but if we have a plan - try and stick to it otherwise its easy for things to go awry again.
So, Next Sunday is the next step ONLY TWO HIVES TO INSPECT the two hives you put frames of eggs in yesterday. Go in only check the frame of eggs you put in yesterday if there are queen cells knock them all off close up and prepare to unite with the hive I discussed in my first plan. This is better done late in the evening when bees aren't flying much. If there are no QC's close up and we'll have a rethink.

Try and stick to the plan please​

 

[irishguy]

O.K. not too bad, but if we have a plan - try and stick to it otherwise its easy for things to go awry again.
So, Next Sunday is the next step ONLY TWO HIVES TO INSPECT the two hives you put frames of eggs in yesterday. Go in only check the frame of eggs you put in yesterday if there are queen cells knock them all off close up and prepare to unite with the hive I discussed in my first plan. This is better done late in the evening when bees aren't flying much. If there are no QC's close up and we'll have a rethink.

Try and stick to the plan please​

Will do and thanks again for your time and help in this thread. Youll make a beekeeper out of me yet

 

[pargyle]

I think youll blow a gasket after you read this post.

Knowing JBM he probably won't ... but you are not miles away from the plan - perhaps, in hindsight, you might have gone back for your phone and then you would have got it 100% right but credit to you as it does seem as though you actually thought about what you were doing.

For those people following this saga with fear and trepidation ... amongst other feelings (there are beekeepers out there considering slashing their wrists I feel) ... I've combined the PLAN with WHAT YOU HAVE DONE ...

Hive 3 Plan :
Hive 3 - 1 check in six days if there are queen cells destroy them all Put that frame of brood back in hive #2 then paper unite these two

What you did:

So, i opened up hive 3, reduced down to 6 frames and put a 4 inch piece of xtratherm insulation in place of the other hives. I also fed with some 1:1 sugar syrup but didnt fill it because they had plenty of stores. I took away rest of the frames to put in other hives.

Hive 2 Plan:
Leave Hive No 2 alone no reticel, no taking anything off, leave super on and leave them expand as you have just taken two whole frames of brood off thus making them once again a weak colony

What you did:

Hive 2, i opened up and put a brood frame where there was a superframe at end of hive. I forgot to mention this earlier to you. I put super back on and leftalone. I didnt feed this hive because had plenty of stores and had a super on with 3/4 filled honey frames.

Hive 1 - Plan:
Hive 1 check in six days if there are queen cells destroy them all Put that frame of brood in hive #4 then paper unite these two

Hive1, i opened this up and reduced down to 8 frames and put xtratherm in place where frames are supposed to be. I took the other frames, shook of bees and put aside. Theres a queen excluder on and super. Seeing as this is queenless, the colony cant really grow so no worries of it getting to busy in there, esp with the super on.

Hive 4 - Plan:
Dummy down No4 as per original suggestion but consider feeding a couple of pints 1:1 syrup.

What You did:

Hive no4, opened this up and put 4 good frames in with capped honey, opened honey and lots of room for queen to lay. I left it at 6 frames and insulation as showed in pic. I moved the frames with bees on them into the centre instead of one frame away from the entrance wall liked showed in last pic. I also fed this with feeder with ss

Hive 6 - The Plan:
[B]No 6 leave well alone, jus a quick check to see if there's plenty of space - if there isn't report back here. Check stores situation - if the have no stores feed a couple of pints 1:1

Maybe in ten days we will have plenty of drawn comb etc to play with then we can address No 6 properly and maybe waste some time on #5[/B]

What you did:

I opened up nucbox next and gave it 3 full frames of stores, and plenty drawn wax for the queen to start laying quickly. I also put small feeder on top of crownboard and filled with with SS. Queen is still there wandering about!

The Caste Plan:
Forget the cast! just dummy down to five frames and see what happens.

What you did:

I know you said forget the caste but i had some frames with stores and wax to lay so i have them these 2 frames. The bees where still in the cluster so i shook them into the frames and closed of the space where they where clustering. I fee this a full white plastic feeder also

The Queen Cells - the Plan
if there are queen cells destroy them all

What you did:

One thing i noticed that you or anyone else didnt mention about the closed queen cells. I dodnt know what to do with them so i just left in place. Was i supposed to? Did you have a look at the pics and can you confirm that they are. Going by the books and the QCs i seen before the swarm, im 99% surer they are but clueless as how to they got there if there wasnt any larvae to make them with.


If nothing else this thread has served a real purpose to show new beekeepers just what a mess you can get into (and very quickly) when the bees start managing you and not the other way around. I'm sure you have a real care for your bees and just want to get them on an even keel but it's really important (as many have said) to have a plan and stick to it - the bees will then very often sort themselves out if you give them time and try and understand what is going on. All credit to JBM for sorting it out as it was well beyond my ability - all the more so as he's doing it from across the Irish Sea and relying solely on the information that you have provided. It's hard enough when the hives are in front of you at times ...

So ... STICK TO THE PLAN ... No more, no less. Good Luck.

 

[pargyle]

. Youll make a beekeeper out of me yet

Probably ... but at the cost of our sanity !!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This is better done late in the evening when bees aren't flying much.

Just thought I'd clarify this - the recommendation is for the actual unite - the inspection is better done in the day, and the unite doesn't have to be done on the same day as the inspection, so no rushing in until the plan has been discussed on here

 

[Nige.Coll]

If nothing else this thread has served a real purpose to show new beekeepers just what a mess you can get into (and very quickly) when the bees start managing you and not the other way around. I'm sure you have a real care for your bees and just want to get them on an even keel but it's really important (as many have said) to have a plan and stick to it - the bees will then very often sort themselves out if you give them time and try and understand what is going on. All credit to JBM for sorting it out as it was well beyond my ability - all the more so as he's doing it from across the Irish Sea and relying solely on the information that you have provided. It's hard enough when the hives are in front of you at times ...

couldn't agree more

 

[irishguy]

]
[/I]

The Queen Cells - the Plan
if there are queen cells destroy them all

What you did:

One thing i noticed that you or anyone else didnt mention about the closed queen cells. I dodnt know what to do with them so i just left in place. Was i supposed to? Did you have a look at the pics and can you confirm that they are. Going by the books and the QCs i seen before the swarm, im 99% surer they are but clueless as how to they got there if there wasnt any larvae to make them with.

.

Ive read this and went over the other posts and it wasnt clear to me that i was suppose to knock off the queen cells that are in there now. It says in 6 days but nothing about now. Can you or j confirm that ive to go in tomorrow and knock these down or just leave tHem. Pics below



http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10632&d=1406583696


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10631&d=1406583696


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10635&d=1406584155

 

[pargyle]

Ive read this and went over the other posts and it wasnt clear to me that i was suppose to knock off the queen cells that are in there now. It says in 6 days but nothing about now. Can you or j confirm that ive to go in tomorrow and knock these down or just leave tHem. Pics below


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10632&d=1406583696


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10631&d=1406583696


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10635&d=1406584155

Well ... Best just clarify before you run amok ... They ARE queen cells - you have one that's open (ie: the queen has emerged), a play cup or possibly the start of another Queen cell and at least one that is still sealed.

Are these QC's all in Hive No. 1 or which hive are they in ? No. 1 is the hive that is supposed to be Queenless ... so these cells must have been started when there were still eggs in the hive.

What we are lacking is knowing how long they have been in there - indeed, there may be dead queens in them if the queen emerged from the open cell and decided to do away with the others before they had the chance to emerge. We also don't know when the queen emerged from the open one - she may even have been the one that swarmed. Without some dates on when you first saw them it's impossible to be sure.

So ... can you clarify where these queen cells are to start with (ie: which hive are they in ?). How many of them are still capped ?

Then we'll have another look at it ... in the meantime ... do only what JBM has said earlier this evening. Don't tear the QC's down until we are sure what we are doing and why ...

 

[irishguy]

Well ... Best just clarify before you run amok ... They ARE queen cells - you have one that's open (ie: the queen has emerged), a play cup or possibly the start of another Queen cell and at least one that is still sealed.

Are these QC's all in Hive No. 1 or which hive are they in ? No. 1 is the hive that is supposed to be Queenless ... so these cells must have been started when there were still eggs in the hive.

What we are lacking is knowing how long they have been in there - indeed, there may be dead queens in them if the queen emerged from the open cell and decided to do away with the others before they had the chance to emerge. We also don't know when the queen emerged from the open one - she may even have been the one that swarmed. Without some dates on when you first saw them it's impossible to be sure.

So ... can you clarify where these queen cells are to start with (ie: which hive are they in ?). How many of them are still capped ?

Then we'll have another look at it ... in the meantime ... do only what JBM has said earlier this evening. Don't tear the QC's down until we are sure what we are doing and why ...

Yes i can see the opened one and the queencup but this closed cell, im near sure its new. They ar in the 2 queenless hives, one in each. Thres actually a few emerged cells in the frames. When we knocked down all the queen cells, we left one opened and one closed. You might be right in that they could be dead but im not sure. I dont think they where there on the last visit i had with the guy who sold me the bees. He mentioned on the phone yesterday that there wouldnt have been larvae in the frames for them to make the cells so maybe they are dead but what if they aren't and hatch. If i remember corrctly, my bes swarmed on the 22th-29th june and by the time all the larvae was capped, that means if this QC came from that larvae, it would have well be emerged. Its a tricky one TbH

 

[oliver90owner]

It's not tricky at all. Any and every queen will emerge around eight days after the cell is capped. Not after a fortnight or more. Really simple and not at all 'tricky'. Queen cells don't just appear. To be viable, the eggs have to be laid by a mated queen. Very simple. Either by a queen in the hive or by another queen (for a donor, or test frame). Very simple.

Everything in beekeeping is simple. If if was complicated, the bees would not be able to cope. Ig is only beekeepers that complicate matters.

 

[kazmcc]

Irish guy, do you take notes at each inspection? There are some great templates out there, it might be an idea to start

 

[irishguy]

It's not tricky at all. Any and every queen will emerge around eight days after the cell is capped. Not after a fortnight or more. Really simple and not at all 'tricky'. Queen cells don't just appear. To be viable, the eggs have to be laid by a mated queen. Very simple. Either by a queen in the hive or by another queen (for a donor, or test frame). Very simple.

Everything in beekeeping is simple. If if was complicated, the bees would not be able to cope. Ig is only beekeepers that complicate matters.

There was no larvae, eggs of brood on them hives 8-14 days ago and now we have capped queen cells. To me, something ain't Right. In fact, if I remember correctly, there was no eggs larvae in these hives on the 29th June, that's 31 days ago! And any larvae should have been capped and emerged buy the time these bees had the chance to make a queen cell. To me, that's tricky!

 

[irishguy]

Irish guy, do you take notes at each inspection? There are some great templates out there, it might be an idea to start

I've been thinking about this strongly over these last few days. When starting out, I told myself I will defo do this but one week went to the next and just kept forgetting. I'll learnt a hard lesson by not keeping notes

 

[kazmcc]

I've been thinking about this strongly over these last few days. When starting out, I told myself I will defo do this but one week went to the next and just kept forgetting. I'll learnt a hard lesson by not keeping notes

Yep, I did the same, but I only had one colony and my lists of notes for the group listing what we would be doing etc, so I could always refer to those, but this time I will def be keeping hive notes. Especially as I am introducing new people and the group looks to me as the main beekeeper for what to do and why ( God help us! )