what would you do

[Tonyatcwfarm]

Is the syrup you are feeding thymolated to prevent fermentation?

 

[user 6228]

Sounds good. I'm very confident my bees will over winter OK with my insulated cover. Mines is 100mm so even more insulated than the 50mm you mention above.

Thanks for popping in and contributing to my thread. Its giving me confidence that the bees will survive the winter.

More is not necessarily better .. that , depending on the construction details , takes you to the outer limits and possibly beyond what bees would have in trees. You are out on your own with that level ...

 

[beeno]

I was told, feed until the bees don't need it no more or until hive is full. Beeno I can only do what I've been advised as I'm a newbie, if i shouldn't be feeding then can you explain to me why because its been repeatedly said to me to feed.

Hi irishguy,
Yep, I have heard that said too 'feed until they don't take any more'. I have also heard it said bees need approx. 14kg of stores to go through the winter. You need to acquire/retain enough knowledge to be able to join up the dots. It will come and we have all been through it - usually through costly mistakes. Next year will be easier I promise!
Just get those surplus stores out of hives by the time prunus and fruit trees blossom otherwise you will have early swarming.

 

[user 6228]

More is not necessarily better .. that , depending on the construction details , takes you to the outer limits and possibly beyond what bees would have in trees. You are out on your own with that level ...

Let me clearer.
I would NOT recommend anyone insulating beyond 50mm PIR on a full sized colony

Unless they had studied carefully in detall all of the implications, and had given their bees a way to continue thermoregulation by the bees themselves opting for a gradual increased heat loss.

 

[pargyle]

So many questions Irishguy ...

DerekM is our resident expert on well insulated hives .. I've heard him speak twice at conventions and his science is very convincing ... I'd already come to the 'well insulated' situation before I knew anything about the science behind it. So ..re-read what Derek has said ...

IE: Your bees WON'T eat as much over winter with your ultra insulated hives ... the traditional beekeeping rule are being rewitten for insulated hives. As Derek says ... with 100mm of Kingspan you are even beyond his cutting edge insulation techniques. Nothing wrong with this it's just that you must not start consulting more traditional hive users for advice as it's not necessarily going to be relevant or apply to your hives.

I would stop feeding now if the hives are looking full ... with the insulation in place and still forage out there you should have enough stores in your hives for them to overwinter. Either start weighing or hefting as I said earlier as you can then judge whether they will need feeding in spring.

If you didn't use thymolated syrup then it's not a disaster but it's too late now to do anything about it (IMO).

When spring finally arrives and it's WARM ENOUGH TO INSPECT IN A T SHIRT - NO EARLIER - a full inspection will then tell you whether you have a large surplus of stores left in the brood box. As Beeno said (and I don't ofter agree with her !) it will be time to get those surplus stores out otherwise you will face early swarming (possibly). But we are a long way off that yet ... time for lots more mistakes before you have to worry about swarms ...

So ... time now to sit back with a slice or two of toast with the best honey in the world on it an thank all those people who have tried to keep you out of the brown smelly stuff these last few months ... more a case of survival in spite of the beekeeper rather than because of him.

Spend the winter just looking at the outside of the hive and worrying like the rest of us do ... read a few beekeeping books and the archives of the forum ... loads of questions over winter to enjoy.

Get your plans and equipment for next season in order and avoid the temptation to LOOK AT THEM ...

I'm sure we all wish you good luck in getting your colonies through winter ... not sure whether I'm looking forward to the prospect of you with more hives though... and certainly not aggressive bees ... please.

 

[irishguy]

Is the syrup you are feeding thymolated to prevent fermentation?

If i remember correctly, not once did anyone mention this. All I was told 2:1 SS

More is not necessarily better .. that , depending on the construction details , takes you to the outer limits and possibly beyond what bees would have in trees. You are out on your own with that level ...

I think I mentioned this before but if I didn't I'll mention it now. The reason why I used 100mm is because I had some half cut sheets left over from when I was building my house and thought I'd use this instead of buying more.

Can you tell me why more isn't naturally better. Naturally I thought more is better because it'll help retain the hear better. TBH, its bit irreverent now because ive already made it up. Next year when I get more bees, I'll use the 50mm as you describe.

Can you tell me have you heard of anyone ever used the 100mm

Hi irishguy,
Yep, I have heard that said too 'feed until they don't take any more'. I have also heard it said bees need approx. 14kg of stores to go through the winter. You need to acquire/retain enough knowledge to be able to join up the dots. It will come and we have all been through it - usually through costly mistakes. Next year will be easier I promise!
Just get those surplus stores out of hives by the time prunus and fruit trees blossom otherwise you will have early swarming.

Will do. Already can't wait for next season. This season has flew in TBH.

Let me clearer.
I would NOT recommend anyone insulating beyond 50mm PIR on a full sized colony

Unless they had studied carefully in detall all of the implications, and had given their bees a way to continue thermoregulation by the bees themselves opting for a gradual increased heat loss.

Next season I'll use 50mm

So many questions Irishguy ...

DerekM is our resident expert on well insulated hives .. I've heard him speak twice at conventions and his science is very convincing ... I'd already come to the 'well insulated' situation before I knew anything about the science behind it. So ..re-read what Derek has said ...

IE: Your bees WON'T eat as much over winter with your ultra insulated hives ... the traditional beekeeping rule are being rewitten for insulated hives. As Derek says ... with 100mm of Kingspan you are even beyond his cutting edge insulation techniques. Nothing wrong with this it's just that you must not start consulting more traditional hive users for advice as it's not necessarily going to be relevant or apply to your hives.

I would stop feeding now if the hives are looking full ... with the insulation in place and still forage out there you should have enough stores in your hives for them to overwinter. Either start weighing or hefting as I said earlier as you can then judge whether they will need feeding in spring.

If you didn't use thymolated syrup then it's not a disaster but it's too late now to do anything about it (IMO).

When spring finally arrives and it's WARM ENOUGH TO INSPECT IN A T SHIRT - NO EARLIER - a full inspection will then tell you whether you have a large surplus of stores left in the brood box. As Beeno said (and I don't ofter agree with her !) it will be time to get those surplus stores out otherwise you will face early swarming (possibly). But we are a long way off that yet ... time for lots more mistakes before you have to worry about swarms ...

So ... time now to sit back with a slice or two of toast with the best honey in the world on it an thank all those people who have tried to keep you out of the brown smelly stuff these last few months ... more a case of survival in spite of the beekeeper rather than because of him.

Spend the winter just looking at the outside of the hive and worrying like the rest of us do ... read a few beekeeping books and the archives of the forum ... loads of questions over winter to enjoy.

Get your plans and equipment for next season in order and avoid the temptation to LOOK AT THEM ...

I'm sure we all wish you good luck in getting your colonies through winter ... not sure whether I'm looking forward to the prospect of you with more hives though... and certainly not aggressive bees ... please.

I was out at bees earlier tieing them down with truckers straps seeing as its going to be very windy tonight. Tomorrow I'll remove the feed but will I remove it from the caste(now small nuc) aswell.

Didn't use thymolate syrup, read above.

In spring when I've to remove stores, how much stores need removing? I know this isnt the time to start thinking about this but thought I'd ask anyway.

I've 3 extra BB, 4 extra supers, and brood and super frames. Some drawn out with wax already. I've more timber in shed and will make another 4 or 5 BB and same or more supers/crown boards/floors etc... As for more new frames/wax, that's down on my xmass pressie list from parents/grand parents and partner so I should have enough to do me all next season.

Don't worry to much about me having aggressive bees just yet, that's a few years away when I at least have a few years beekeeping under my belt. Next season will be 2 new overwintered nucs again and if this caste pulls through, that's 3 nucs I'll have and will be giving the kids one each. Some mightn't agree with this seeing as I'm only a newbie been myself but if things go OK, they'll be attending the bees with me, if bees are anyway agreesive the kids won't be anywhere near them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is the syrup you are feeding thymolated to prevent fermentation?

People do not thymolate syrup to prevent fermentation (although that is one of the fringe benefits) putting thymol in the syrup is for a totally different reason and too late to discuss that now - the bees will process the syrup and reduce it's water content so that it won't ferment.
so stop feeding the man a bum steer

 

[Nige.Coll]

Dooh
But why ?
Err oops
Really ? Spring to mind but no drama.

 

[oliver90owner]

so stop feeding the man a bum steer

That also goes for the other regular bum steerers who continually give out carp advice. Such as ''14kg'' winter stores. The usual 'I've also heard it said'. Seemingly helpful, but as useful as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

Makes me wonder what planet this advice comes from. Just another one to add to my already long list of carp advice, from cloud cuckoo land, dished out directly to new beeks.

 

[irishguy]

so stop feeding the man a bum steer

That also goes for the other regular bum steerers who continually give out carp advice. Such as ''14kg'' winter stores. .

So what is the proper procedure of feeding.

 

[user 6228]

I think I mentioned this before but if I didn't I'll mention it now. The reason why I used 100mm is because I had some half cut sheets left over from when I was building my house and thought I'd use this instead of buying more.

Can you tell me why more isn't naturally better. Naturally I thought more is better because it'll help retain the hear better.


TBH, its bit irreverent now because ive already made it up. Next year when I get more bees, I'll use the 50mm as you describe.

Can you tell me have you heard of anyone ever used the 100mm

I could easily be persuaded this entire thread is a wind up.- for those others who may read it Iwill answer this
50mm PIR + full size colony = tree nest warmth
we know a full colony of bees can handle tree level warmth
100mm PIR + full size colony = 2 x tree nest warmth
can bees survive 2 x tree warmth? we dont know! They could start bearding in freezing cold conditions.
No one to my knowledge has put a complete 100mm cover with sides over a full sized colony.

Don't do 100mm all over a full sized colony unless you know what you are doing with heat flows an temperature gradients and understand how to provide thermal safety for the bees in case overheating occurs

Only one person I know has used 100mm, that was on mugfull of bees and even then they provided thermal safety.

A begginer who doesnt appear to understand heat is exactly the sort of beekeeper who shouldnt attempt this. As it could easily result in a dead colony and not knowing why.

 

[tudorcd]

So what is the proper procedure of feeding.

Spoon, not knife and fork, linen napkin. Sit up straight.

 

[oliver90owner]

So what is the proper procedure of feeding.

There is no single 'proper procedure', but there is an accepted minimum target amount of stores required for overwintering a normal colony in a full hive and it is not 14kg. Near 50% more is the generally the accepted amount, so you should be able to understand how crass some advice really is. Of course, colonies can be taken through the winter with a very small amount of embedded stores - by continual addition of small amounts of fondant per eg.

Any manipulation or process should be considered for any situation, by the beekeeper. Options are often restricted but may be numerous if the possible options are simply listed. There is usually a simple choice, as nothing is really difficult with keeping bees.

 

[irishguy]

Have been real busy these last few weeks with work, xmass and in the hospice waiting for my grandmother to pass away so haven't been doing much reading up on what I've to do over xmass period with my bees. If I remember correctly, I've to heft my hives and if feeling light then I've to feed with foundant. Do I also open up hive to check before feeding.

 

[rolande]

If I remember correctly, I've to heft my hives and if feeling light then I've to feed with foundant. Do I also open up hive to check before feeding.

waste of time doing both.

 

[beeno]

Hi Irisheyes,
If light yep feed fondant. Check for varroa seven days, depending on the drop treat with OA or not as the case may be. Sorry about your grandmother, much in the same position here. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year wishing you a good season's beekeeping in 2015.

 

[thorn]

waste of time doing both.

So are you suggesting that we don't check to see if the bees are running low on stores, and that in any event, we shouldn't bother feeding them, but simply allow them to die of starvation?
In a perfect world we would all be adept at ensuring that as they went into autumn our colonies were left with enough to see them through. Unfortunately the less experienced/able amongst us lack that skill, and need to check periodically throughout the winter, and if we find a potential problem, address it.

 

[pargyle]

So are you suggesting that we don't check to see if the bees are running low on stores, and that in any event, we shouldn't bother feeding them, but simply allow them to die of starvation?
In a perfect world we would all be adept at ensuring that as they went into autumn our colonies were left with enough to see them through. Unfortunately the less experienced/able amongst us lack that skill, and need to check periodically throughout the winter, and if we find a potential problem, address it.

I don't think he meant that - I think he meant EITHER HEFT or LOOK - personally, I would not look - I weigh my hives as well as hefting and I won't be opening mine until Spring has definitely sprung ....

 

[rolande]

I don't think he meant that - I think he meant EITHER HEFT or LOOK

Right! No point hefting if he's going to open them anyway.

 

[enrico]

Now if he had used the word 'either' instead of 'both' ......but he didn't and I agree with him.