What to do now

[markb2603]

Today, was probably the worst possible day I could have had beekeeping and I can’t imagine there will be many worse in the future. I have a queenless part of a split I did last week - brood box and super. I wanted to check to see if there were any queen cells and that all was going to plan. I opened up the hive and it was absolute mayhem from then on. Very quick brood box inspection revealed no queen cells at all from the split, I was sure there was adequate eggs for them to build a queen cell from. In all the mayhem, I managed to get a frame of eggs from the other part of the split and insert into the hive and close up. I cannot even put into words the aggressiveness of the hive. Literally all out and looking for blood, I had managed to tell the family to stay indoors and rang the neighbour and told them to get under cover. I could smell the alarm pheromone in the air. After about 30 minutes I came back out to have a look around the property and sadly, 3 of our 6 chickens appear to have been stung to death (the coop is a good 50 metres away and in the opposite direction to where I ran)! I’m absolutely devastated by it. What am I to do with the hive? At a minimum I need to move it to a new location on the site. Possibly a couple of hundred metres away. Could they calm down after a new queen is present or shall I combine ASAP with another hive which is literally just finished requesting or just be rid of it altogether? I really, really cannot have a repeat of this. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated

 

[Erichalfbee]

As it is in your garden with neighbours any manipulation will be difficult. Do you have somewhere to move it away from from people?
Then you can suit up with long sleeves and stout trousers under your beesuit , tape your sleeves up with gaffer tape and wear gloves and gauntlets to take stock of what’s going on inside.
If you can’t do any of this then you need to give them a cup of petrol and be done. They are dangerous.

 

[Spikedog]

Moving them within the apery a poor option as will leave flybacks being homeless seeking revenge. Suggest combine with original or preferably established quieter crew. May take some time to quieten. Again, some may flyback… I imagine a unit as aggressive as reported might be difficult to requeen with bought in Queen, and down where I am (Wicklow) not seeing much Drone yet for Q rearing. Your association might have members combining units with some Q’s to spare but as above it may prove difficult to requeen. So, give yourself some time and combine … fingers crossed. If kick off again it might be better for you, family, animals, and neighbours if this unit is destroyed.

 

[Wilco]

On a semi related note, whilst almost certainly due to the bees, three sudden deaths in poultry might be worth notifying local government vet given current bird flu situation.

Would these be black bees?

 

[markb2603]

Definitely death by sting, the poor creatures but I’ll look up the local guidance. They are black bees yes. A lively hive before the split but I wasn’t particularly concerned. The Q+ part of the split was actually very docile when I had a quick look in today to check on things. Would them being black bees be of any significance in regards to their behaviour ?

 

[rook66]

On a semi related note, whilst almost certainly due to the bees, three sudden deaths in poultry might be worth notifying local government vet given current bird flu situation.

Would these be black bees?

The op has a serious problem and is asking for help. Admin please keep things on track.

 

[blackcloud]

Ive recently dealt with a viciously queenless colony.A frame of bias quickly calmed them down a little
Take them to a remote field somewhere once you've closed the hive early am.
If all else fails a bucket of washing up liquid to euthanize them rather than petrol - way kinder more effective,less harmful to the immediate environment, cheaper and you can reuse the kit after.
Good point from Wilco re bird flu-never jump to conclusions with bees

 

[Erichalfbee]

The op has a serious problem and is asking for help. Admin please keep things on track.

Nothing wrong with Wilco's question. It's been answered.
You can rest assured that no moderator here would allow a beginner's plea for help to become a dogpile on bee colour...if that's what you meant

 

[Wilco]

Definitely death by sting, the poor creatures but I’ll look up the local guidance. They are black bees yes. A lively hive before the split but I wasn’t particularly concerned. The Q+ part of the split was actually very docile when I had a quick look in today to check on things. Would them being black bees be of any significance in regards to their behaviour ?

Agree it's most likely that from what you're saying but better to be safe than sorry.

Them being black bees doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it, it was just curiosity on my part- there are a number on here who swear by black bees and that they're notably docile. I tend to find they're a lot more variable and it depends where/who you got them from.

Being Q- can really change/reveal temperament in my experience but if they were lively before I suspect it's a case of now seeing what they're 'really' like. However, your case is extreme IMO. I'd go with previous advice and either destroy or, if I could access a mated queen from a decent breeder with really calm stock in about the next day, trial that but if that doesn't settle them pretty quickly then destroy them.

I'd also be careful with the half of the split with the original Q in, they're likely docile now because they're smaller in number- the genetics will be very similar to those of the vicious ones and if you split them in future you risk a repeat. Keeping dangerous genetics going is not something I'd encourage. Probably a good idea to replace her with a more docile one.

 

[Wilco]

The op has a serious problem and is asking for help. Admin please keep things on track.

Question was genuine and born of curiosity. I find it's a good idea to presume the best of people.

 

[markb2603]

As of this morning I moved all my hives - 3 nucs and 2 hives - a further 500m down the site and we’ll out of the way of any people or livestock so hopefully that deals with any imminent issues. I closed up and ventilated all the hives last night and will try leaving them all closed for 3 days before covering entrances with bushes and opening back up in the hope they reorientate and leave them all be for 2 weeks - is this a bad idea? Temperatures aren’t due to get over 12 degrees the next few days so I’m hoping they won’t overheat. It also buys me some time. I’ve reached out to a few suppliers in Ireland to see if I can get a couple of new queens for the relevant hive and split. I had actually planned to replace these two queens but the supplier I had got in touch with wouldn’t have anything until June and I was just going to wait until then. I did manage to get a frame of bias into the Q- split yesterday so I imagine they’ll be working on queen cells on that in the next few days. If I do get a couple of queens, can I just whip out that frame, air freshener and new queen in with tab removed or is it likely to fail?

I have to say, I’m so muddled after that experience. On a positive note, the 3 remaining chickens are out and about this morning eating and drinking.

 

[E&MBees]

Good luck!
It’s not nice when that happens. I hope you can sort them out. Have you tried some Olbas oil on your gloves? I’m dealing with a nasty hive currently and a drop of oil on my gloves reduces the number of bee’s going for them as the bees don’t like the smell. It helps a little!

 

[markb2603]

Opened up the relevant hive over the weekend to get an idea of what was going on within the hive. They were probably the calmest I have ever seen them which was a complete turnaround and unexpected. I had tried to source a queen during the week but no luck until about mid June here so will replace both queens in the splits then.

An interesting observation though as I made my way through the hive, the frame of eggs and and young larvae I added 7 days before showed no signs of queen cells at all, standard brood comb with capped brood and nothing to report. I did however find 2 queen cells on separate frames which were capped but had been ripped open on the sides. I didn’t hang around too long but is it safe to assume that because they didn’t build queen cells on the frame of eggs/larvae and I see 2 opened queen cells that there is probably a newly emerged virgin wondering about the hive somewhere? If that’s the case, it’s really hard to explain their behaviour last week given they would have been in the process of generating a new queen.

 

[Swarm]

Sounds very much like there is.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I did however find 2 queen cells on separate frames which were capped but had been ripped open on the sides.

that is usually the case when the bees have torn out the contents as they were dead - or to kill them

 

[enrico]

The lesson I would learn from this is when the pheromones are strong enough for you to smell them then close up as soon as possible. It is no good carrying on as the signal to attack has been given and that is just what they will do. Anyone and anything.

 

[Ely]

.

 

[Mabee]

The lesson I would learn from this is when the pheromones are strong enough for you to smell them then close up as soon as possible. It is no good carrying on as the signal to attack has been given and that is just what they will do. Anyone and anything.

i’ve got a pretty good sense of smell and have never encountered this smell, even with a previous colony which was always on attack mode.

 

[enrico]

i’ve got a pretty good sense of smell and have never encountered this smell, even with a previous colony which was always on attack mode.

Trust me.... when you smell it start running! It is the most sickly smell that you can imagine and it fills the air. It sets off all the other hives and the air fills with angry bees. Try knocking a hive over, that usually works

 

[user 20297]

Trust me.... when you smell it start running! It is the most sickly smell that you can imagine and it fills the air. It sets off all the other hives and the air fills with angry bees. Try knocking a hive over, that usually works

....or simply pick up a box of bees, don't pay attention to the fact that the one below it has restuck itself and watch in wonder as that lower box crashes to the ground in slow motion.....slight pause and deathly quiet, then watch as the world seems to speed up in front of you. RUN, (faster than 25 mph).