What to do after swarming

[SteveHLD]

A couple of my colonies have swarmed recently.
I have two questions:

Firstly I have been taught that after a colony has swarmed you should leave the mother colony alone for a month and then look in to find the new queen / eggs. But what if they become queenless early on - the QC fails to hatch? Three weeks later the colony will contain laying workers. Maybe the queen does not return from a mating flight (how soon will the workers detect that they are queen less?) maybe she doesn't lay ... how long should you wait and see?

Secondly I was there when a colony swarmed and I quickly closed the hive entrance before too many bees escaped! Subsequently I destroyed all but one QC. I managed to catch one of the two small swarm clusters but the bees I caught must only cover one frame I think, the bees are coating one side wall of the poly Nuc. The original small hive (5 frames of brood) looks much less congested, I can see the frames, not just bees. What should i do with the little lot of swarmed bees and their queen? Just supposing I could catch the old queen could I put her back in the mother hive?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

A couple of my colonies have swarmed recently.
I have two questions:

Firstly I have been taught that after a colony has swarmed you should leave the mother colony alone for a month and then look in to find the new queen / eggs. But what if they become queenless early on - the QC fails to hatch? Three weeks later the colony will contain laying workers. Maybe the queen does not return from a mating flight (how soon will the workers detect that they are queen less?) maybe she doesn't lay ... how long should you wait and see?

Secondly I was there when a colony swarmed and I quickly closed the hive entrance before too many bees escaped! Subsequently I destroyed all but one QC. I managed to catch one of the two small swarm clusters but the bees I caught must only cover one frame I think, the bees are coating one side wall of the poly Nuc. The original small hive (5 frames of brood) looks much less congested, I can see the frames, not just bees. What should i do with the little lot of swarmed bees and their queen? Just supposing I could catch the old queen could I put her back in the mother hive?

Losing prime swarms happens. Losing cast swarms there is less excuse. Reduce the swarmed colonies to ONE QC, open if possible (so you can see it's alive) and of course a nice big fat'un. If you have the kit and are cautious you can take a nuc with a second. Then indeed leave well alone for a while. But do reduce the QCs to avoid casts.

On your half-caught swarm, I would transfer over some bees and sealed brood (give them two days in a dark place, closed and cool, with sprays of water, to avoid robbing) let the stump raise their Q (definitely 1 QC here since you have the old Q) and look to reunite.

Can refine this if yield is a consideration.

ADD Laying workers only kick in some weeks after the last brood is sealed. Should not be an issue.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

All sounds a bit confusing (or confused) to me. Pointless shutting the bees in half way through a swarm - let them get on with it and hopefully catch the swarm when they hang up.People don't realise than once the swarm has settled quite a few bees return to the mother hive - you don't want them arriving to a closed door!
After the swarm inspect, try and find one good open Queen cell (or failing that, two sealed, close together) mark the frame where they are and tear down the rest. go back three or four days later, then after a week and take down any new emergency cells they have made otherwise when the QC's are matured they will just swarm out cast after cast until you have a colony left slightly larger than a peanut.
Once you are happy you have just the one (or two) chosen QC's then you leave them alone for three or four weeks to give the queen time to mate. If on the first inspection you don't find any eggs/brood wait another couple of weeks.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If you leave a swarmed colony for a month the chances are that they will send out a cast or two, so that's not good advice. Reduce to one open queencell. Then a week or so later remove all other queencells by shaking the frames to expose any small emergency queencells and remove anything you think just might be a queencell. But don't shake the frame with the queencell on you want to keep.

Leave just one queencell, not two. No harm in checking but before 10 and after 6 pm in case the queen is out and about and gets confused by your presence.

 

[SteveHLD]

Thank you for your valuable advice. Please could you describe when and how I could consider "reuniting" the swarm with the mother colony.
I think on this occasion I could have saved quite a bit of my bee work force by closing the entrance. I did not think I would be able to collect the swarm but in the end I managed it, but it was hairy. I did not immediately notice more bees returning to the hive any more than I would expect from returning foragers .I opened the entrance once the swarm was installed in a hive and everything seemed back to normal
Adding brood and bees: I have no way of getting the hive to a cool place although I can put it in the dark, in the disused stable where I store my stuff. It takes me 50 minutes to walk to my bees and my dog heartily approves of this arrangement. Occasionally a friend helps me transport stuff back and forth in his car. So spraying them with water is not so easy either! Perhaps I could stuff the entrance with grass in the evening when they are all home, mind you in this heat the grass will probably be shrivelled up by the morning. I could close the entrance overnight and then put the grass in place in the morning. I could put the hive in the wood?! How about I just put a branch over the entrance. As a precaution remove the rapid feeder for a couple of days. They will re-orient and not go back to summon their pals. I have moved hives around my apiary using the branch across the entrance trick and all has gone well.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

How small is the swarm and is the Q in it? Could it be a self-sustaining colony, at least for a while? Maybe you don't need to transfer bodies. I see the challenges logistically and you seem to be thinking about it all, which is a good start, so yes, try a branch.

I would let the parent colony raise the new Q and check she's a good 'un before thinking about reuniting but as I said if you want a crop, or to make increase, give more details and we'll see what we can do.

 

[SteveHLD]

The swarm was bigger than I thought so I decided not to add a frame of brood. 4 seams of bees with the queen on the hive wall still, with a lot of admirers. I only had plastic or a couple of frames with starter strips so I used the latter. In 6 days they have drawn out more than 2/3 of a frame and have started to bring in pollen. So it will be great to have them draw some comb and I can reunite in the late summer if necessary. Meanwhile the mother hive has no more queen cells and the one that is present has a round hole at the end BUT not quite right at the tip, and no "trap door". Timing would be okay for her emerging but I wonder whether the workers removed her dead body or would they always make a hole at the base to do this? Anyway, I've put a frame of eggs in the hive just in case they need it. I'm amazed how there are now no signs of all the QCs I squashed.

 

[beeno]

Hi Steve,
Good recovery which is what it is all about. You are doing all the right things just have to wait to see if they build more QCs. Perhaps you inadvertently damaged the QC you were saving - been there done that. Watch out for emergency QCs as well as the ones on the frame of eggs if that was the case. Good luck.