What next - double brood 14 x 12 ?

[jonnybeegood]

Sorry i think youll find it was the usual dig on post 4 after i had tried to help you out. Same old same old.

 

[pargyle]

Sorry i think youll find it was the usual dig on post 4 after i had tried to help you out. Same old same old.

Nope ... nothing there directed at you ... helpful post directed at my situation ,,,

"No real problem putting another 14 x 12 over - used a 14 x 12 as a super, on occasions, before now. Only wimps or those with bad backs need shy away.

But I reckon the rearrangement will likely trigger a swarm, so you may need an extra box fairly shortly anyway.

RAB "

 

[Bosleeu]

I would strong consider splitting them, I think you would be very lucky if they don't swarm once you move them into a vertical arrangement,and all that brood start emerging. You never know though, but if you do it proactively at least your can do it on you own schedule rather than having to do an AS on such a large colony at short notice.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Tempted to agree with Bosleeu, that moving them to a vertical arrangement might well trigger swarm preparations. Then you'll end up with two colonies, and will need another long deep hive!

 

[pargyle]

Oh dear ... isn't that just beekeeping ... damned if you do .. damned if you don't ! One of the reasons I didn't want to split them is that I don't have enough kit to make up another full hive so it would be a split into a Nuc and the Paynes 14 x 12 that I have - so that's less than ideal ....

She was a new queen following the swarm from the LDH last year so I had hoped that she would not swarm this year and left in the LDH I don't think she will, as the colony was much smaller this time last year when they swarmed.

So ... decisions, decisions ...

 

[pargyle]

Right ... I bit the bullet and bought another Paynes Poly 14 x 12, So, by the weekend I will have two new empty 14 x 12's on stands ready for whatever manipulation comes next.

I've decided to split the LDH into the two new hives but:

1. It's a very big colony.
2. Small, unmarked queen who is very elusive.
3. The LDH is very heavy so moving it with bees in is limited and it certainly can't be picked up and shaken !
4. There is not a huge amount of room around the hive.

As you will recall, I want to empty the LDH into the two new polys and take it out of use for modification - there's no rush for this end result.

So my plan is:

Do the split in two stages.

Drag the LDH a bit to one side and rotate it through 90 degrees. Site one of the new hives alongside a few feet away and with the entrance facing the LDH. (Just to give the returning bees a choice as to which hive they go to - I recognise that most will probably go to Q+ colony).

Take half the frames with some stores, eggs & BIAS and the nurse bees on the frames out of the LDH and put them into the new hive. Dummy the frames left in the LDH down. Put the roofs on and let them get on with it - there's a fair amount of forage about at present so I can't see the need for feeding them as I'll also be leaving some frames of stores in there.

In a few days check which hive is raising queen cells. With a bit of luck it will be the new poly hive. If it is then I can then empty the frames out of the LDH into the other new poly and put the other new poly in the place and orientation of the LDH. Move the LDH and any odd bees left in it to the other side of the apiary and then, once the bees have left and gone home to the new hive, I can take it out of use.

Subsequently, I will rotate the two new hives back to face the way the LDH originally faced.

I think this is the easiest way to get to what I want - trying to do it all in one go, I think, is going to end up with lots of very confused bees and I could foresee a problem trying to get all the bees out of the LDH and the possibility of all this disturbance ending up with a swarm.

At the last inspection there were no queen cells in the LDH .. if there are some in there when I start the split then I will really have to find the queen and do an AS but I rather hope there isn't ... although it does mean that the colony is a bit ahead of the game if there are queen cells.

Either way, in due course, once I have some queen cells I will start a nuc off to repopulate the LDH once it's back in action. I recognise that this is going to reduce the honey crop a bit but that's not a tragedy for me.

That's the plan ... unless anyone has any better ideas ?

 

[Obee1]

Right ... I bit the bullet and bought ........

That must have hurt. You will be ruining your reputation as a tight wad

 

[Erichalfbee]

So my plan is:

Do the split in two stages.

Let us know how it all goes. I'd love to see the new refurbished LDH

 

[pargyle]

That must have hurt. You will be ruining your reputation as a tight wad

Still crying about it .... but I got a small, unexpected, dividend on a few shares I've had for ages and it went about half way to the new hive so I figured it was not going to cost me any more, in my mind, than just buying a brood box. Well ... that's how I justified it !!

 

[pargyle]

Let us know how it all goes. I'd love to see the new refurbished LDH

Yes ... bit nervous, I've split conventional (in both box size and colony size) before but I'm in uncharted territory with this big big colony and the LDH. Pictures in due course .. hoping the weekend is going to be good weather.

 

[Obee1]

Still crying about it .... but I got a small, unexpected, dividend on a few shares I've had for ages and it went about half way to the new hive so I figured it was not going to cost me any more, in my mind, than just buying a brood box. Well ... that's how I justified it !!

Good way to think! I'm rather liking the 'equating everything with a jar of honey' method used by finman. New shoes? 7 jars of honey. I'll take em. New handbag? 100 jars of honey...... Oh go on then!
If only I had finmans crop I could buy a new car too:

 

[pargyle]

If only I had finmans crop I could buy a new car too:

Hmmm ... wishful thinking .... 300lbs per hive ....

From wikipedia.

"However, a Mr. Rob Smith of Australia surely holds the world’s most astounding result for an apiary. According to Bill Winner, Beekeeper Services Manager, Capilano Honey Company, “We can confirm the average production of 346 kilograms (762 lbs) per hive from 460 hives. (This is almost twice the Aebi claim to fame, and it is an average from hundreds of colonies, not just one hive's unique production.) The beekeeper’s name was Bob Smith from Manjimup, Western Australia. The honey was Karri. The year was 1954.” Mr. Winner adds: “This figure is confirmed by R. Manning with a reference to a journal highlighting a box titled World Record in Honey in 1954."

It would have to be an exceptional year and exceptional bees or a vivid imagination to get near 300lbs from a British hive ... Finman clearly has a secret.

 

[Tremyfro]

Exciting times ahead for you....I wonder what your LDH will look like inside? In regard to propolis/ wild comb etc when you finally remove all the bees? They have been in there for quite a while...or do you move them along the hive to clean up each season?

 

[pargyle]

Exciting times ahead for you....I wonder what your LDH will look like inside? In regard to propolis/ wild comb etc when you finally remove all the bees? They have been in there for quite a while...or do you move them along the hive to clean up each season?

It's not too bad, I tend to clean up any errant comb when I inspect and they do propolise for England - but, again, I tend to scrape as I go. There are a few bits of comb attached to the end walls but nothing serious. As long as you keep the frame spacing correct and they have space for stores and brood then brace comb doesn't become a big problem ... give them empty space (like forgetting to replace a frame - I've been there - and they will get very creative with comb building !

I paint the inside of my hives with a propolis 'varnish' - even the poly ones - and this seems to discourage them from puttjng too much prop on the hive sides. I seal the crownboard to the top of the hive to prevent heat coming out and so they tend not to propolise around the crown board too much either. I am expecting the floor to be well glued to the bottom of the hive though !!

 

[Tremyfro]

I am hoping to put a colony into my long hive soon....but the weather is going to be wet and windy again for the next week. My poor bees get one good day out and then a week of grotty weather. Just as well that I decided on increase this year....the honey making looks grim. I shall have 2 hives that might have some to spare but I think we will be relying on the HB later in the year. If the nucs get a mated queen each...I will be thrilled. First queens are due to emerge on Friday....weather is supposed to improve towards the middle of next week...fingers crossed...just in time for my girls to go out.
Good luck with your bees moving home.....when are you going to move them? Will you recombine afterwards....or build your Zest to accommodate the extra bees?

 

[Finman]

.
In first post it was said that there was 18 frames bees and 13 frames brood.

It was 10 days ago. That is strong layer and the hive will need later 3 brood boxes and 4-6 supers.

One brood more is needed to build up new foundations for brood boxes and super are needed at least for bees. They need that room, and if hive gets good yield, more room is needed.

But warning: 13 brood frames is much and the colony will burst very fast when masses of workers emerge. It needs weekly one box more,.... at least.

Give foundations to be drawn that it prevents swarming fever.

 

[pargyle]

.
In first post it was said that there was 18 frames bees and 13 frames brood.

It was 10 days ago. That is strong layer and the hive will need later 3 brood boxes and 4-6 supers.

One brood more is needed to build up new foundations for brood boxes and super are needed at least for bees. They need that room, and if hive gets good yield, more room is needed.

But warning: 13 brood frames is much and the colony will burst very fast when masses of workers emerge. It needs weekly one box more,.... at least.

Give foundations to be drawn that it prevents swarming fever.

Yes you are right .. one of the advantages of leaving the Long deep hive in place initially is that after I have split off half the frames into the new 14 x 12 there will be plenty of space left in the LDH for expansion. I'm foundationless but I have some frames made up ready to give both hives a bit of space to play with. Depending on how the new poly develops I have supers that I can put on there as well.

They have been very busy for the last few days as the weather has been perfect for them - mixtures of pollen coming in and I can see the pink pollen from the horse chestnut trees (lots of them nearby), whitish grey (lots of hawthorn now in blossom) and some yellow (rape ?). But today the temperature has dropped and it's raining heavily so that will slow them down a bit. The rain is due to stop tomorrow and temps come back up so I'm hopeful for the weekend to do the split.

But ... you're right about them building up quickly ... I'll have to keep a close eye on them.

 

[pargyle]

Well ... not hive upsetting weather today ...quite windy and very overcast and humid .. opened up the long hive just for a look ... they were not happy - not aggressive but clearly not in the mood for the hive being torn apart. Didn't even lift a frame, just took part of the crownboard up and they were everywhere. So - did the sensible thing and closed them up ... weather forecast better for tomorrow so I'm going to try again. I have the luxury of being able to walk away - far better to listen to the bees and not be stupid about it, persisting just stresses the bees and the beekeeper !

 

[Hivemaker.]

Well ... not hive upsetting weather today ...quite windy and very overcast and humid .. opened up the long hive just for a look ... they were not happy -

Not surprised, opening them up in the dark for a poke around, or is your apiary also floodlit for these kind of inspections.

 

[pargyle]

Not surprised, opening them up in the dark for a poke around, or is your apiary also floodlit for these kind of inspections.

One of my allotments is floodlit from a streetlamp - about the only thing I get free from the council. I do have security halogens on the house and one of them does shine as far as my apiary but ... no - it was not a night time inspection... did it yesterday afternoon but only got round to posting last night ... I'm a bit of a night person.

Wind has dropped today but so has the temperature .. might have to postpone again. Damn - it's just started raining as well ...