What next - double brood 14 x 12 ?

[pargyle]

OK .. As I said earlier this year the time is approaching when my Long Deep Hive has to come out of service for some modifications. Did an inspection today and it is jammed full of bees ... 18 frames all covered with bees and this was just after lunch when it was really sunny and warm and hoards of them were flying !

There are 13 frames (14 x 12's) all with brood on them .. not all wall to wall brood but 7 of them are and the other 6 are about 50% covered ... so in a week there are going to be a LOT of bees in there. Rest of the frames were honey/pollen and empty cells ... they had built out and filled a frame with honey since I last inspected 10 days ago so I nicked a couple of frames of capped honey and gave them a couple more empty ones to play with.

No signs of any queen cells ...

I'm going to move them into a Paynes poly sometime during the coming week in order to play with the LDH. I think there are too many bees and certainly too many frames of brood to put it all into one 14 x 12 brood box, they are going to need two.

So ... the question is: Do I go to double brood with a 14 x 12 on top of a 14 x 12 ? I know there isn't a queen in the world that would lay up this size of box but she's having a pretty good try at present !

Or ... should I split the hive and become a four hive owner ?

From a cost viewpoint my spare kit is one complete Paynes poly and two 14 x 12 Nucs. So, I don't mind buying another brood box as that's just £26 but I don't really want to fork out for another complete hive at present.

I'm out of my comfort zone here - I had rather thought that I would just transfer them into the spare hive but the size of the colony has rather thrown me !

The mods the the LDH are going to take me a couple of weeks at least but it will be back in action later in the season. I have spare supers for the poly hives

Suggestions please ... I'm not in a rush as there's no queen cells and they still have space but I need a plan and at present I don't have one !

 

[jonnybeegood]

OK .. As I said earlier this year the time is approaching when my Long Deep Hive has to come out of service for some modifications. Did an inspection today and it is jammed full of bees ... 18 frames all covered with bees and this was just after lunch when it was really sunny and warm and hoards of them were flying !

There are 13 frames (14 x 12's) all with brood on them .. not all wall to wall brood but 7 of them are and the other 6 are about 50% covered ... so in a week there are going to be a LOT of bees in there. Rest of the frames were honey/pollen and empty cells ... they had built out and filled a frame with honey since I last inspected 10 days ago so I nicked a couple of frames of capped honey and gave them a couple more empty ones to play with.

No signs of any queen cells ...

I'm going to move them into a Paynes poly sometime during the coming week in order to play with the LDH. I think there are too many bees and certainly too many frames of brood to put it all into one 14 x 12 brood box, they are going to need two.

So ... the question is: Do I go to double brood with a 14 x 12 on top of a 14 x 12 ? I know there isn't a queen in the world that would lay up this size of box but she's having a pretty good try at present !

Or ... should I split the hive and become a four hive owner ?

From a cost viewpoint my spare kit is one complete Paynes poly and two 14 x 12 Nucs. So, I don't mind buying another brood box as that's just £26 but I don't really want to fork out for another complete hive at present.

I'm out of my comfort zone here - I had rather thought that I would just transfer them into the spare hive but the size of the colony has rather thrown me !

The mods the the LDH are going to take me a couple of weeks at least but it will be back in action later in the season. I have spare supers for the poly hives

Suggestions please ... I'm not in a rush as there's no queen cells and they still have space but I need a plan and at present I don't have one !

Become a 4 hive owner. I just lifted a 14 x 12 BB today to clean the floor & mine was quite full & heavy , i wouldnt want to lift one on top. I asked the same question a while ago & got ridiculed by some & some good answers from others. Maybe best to remove some frames & give foundation for space?

 

[Hawklord]

Is it possible to make another LDH?

 

[oliver90owner]

No real problem putting another 14 x 12 over - used a 14 x 12 as a super, on occasions, before now. Only wimps or those with bad backs need shy away.

But I reckon the rearrangement will likely trigger a swarm, so you may need an extra box fairly shortly anyway.

RAB

 

[Anduril]

At the moment I have 2 hives on double 14x12 as they took me totally by surprise. The bees have drawn all the frames out within 2 weeks. But I am looking at increase and requeening a nasty hive.

 

[pargyle]

Is it possible to make another LDH?

It was my original plan and I've got another one part completed but I've got some other priorities in the next few weeks and whilst I have time to mess about with the one I have I haven't time to finish building another one ... plus, it's a triple wall job with a timber/poly/timber wall construction so it does take a bit more time to make than a single wall 'coffin'. This colony has always been in my highly insulated LDH and I don't want to compromise them with just a 'box'.

I had considered building a Zest hive which isn't going to take long and that is still a possibilty .. but there's not a lot of space next to my LDH in the apiary so that's not going to be easy either.

 

[pargyle]

No real problem putting another 14 x 12 over - used a 14 x 12 as a super, on occasions, before now. Only wimps or those with bad backs need shy away.

But I reckon the rearrangement will likely trigger a swarm, so you may need an extra box fairly shortly anyway.

RAB

At the moment I have 2 hives on double 14x12 as they took me totally by surprise. The bees have drawn all the frames out within 2 weeks. But I am looking at increase and requeening a nasty hive.

I must admit that double 14 x 12 brood seemed to be the logical and cheapest solution as that's what they are now - but horizontal... I'm used to handling this colony and the size doesn't bother me (they are quite well behaved) but not having seen a vertical double brood 14 x 12 I felt a bit phased at the prospect.

My poly hive stands are quite low so I would be lifting the top box at a manageable height so I shouldn't destroy my back ...

Looking a bit like this is the option unless someone has other ideas ?

 

[itma]

Speaking as someone who must be a "wimp with a bad back", I'd suggest that the double 14x12 Paynes should only be contemplated if you can count on someone else to help with lifting the thing for inspections.

The poorer handholds on the Paynes box (compared with a wooden 14x12) makes solo lifting of brood boxes more awkward than I personally find comfortable.

But as a temporary home for the entire colony (no splitting and recombining) its probably the simplest route.



Just as an incidental thing, I'm finding that "warm way" working gives me a clearer distinction between frames with and without brood - particularly coming out of winter with (warm way) frames from the back of the hive being all-stores, rather than being a bit of stores on all frames with the one hive that has been 'cold way'.
With your brood being spread over so many frames, is your long hive entrance on a long or short side?

 

[Tremyfro]

You know...you really should build the Zest hive....you know you want to! ....and it will only take a few hours to put together. The colony could have the summer there....and if you then move them back into the long hive....you can always dismantle it....only insulation blocks after all. Then...in addition...you can report your findings on how the colony got on compared to the long hive....in fact you may even decide to leave them in there! Which would mean you wouldn't need your long hive....and so...naturally you could give it to me....Ta Daaa
Also...we had our Paynes 14x12 box above a nadir...nearly killed us moving it....full of winter stores....then we had to reverse it this spring...another hefty lift. I wouldn't ever do it again...as has been said by Itma.....no handholds.

 

[Tremyfro]

Speaking as someone who must be a "wimp with a bad back", I'd suggest that the double 14x12 Paynes should only be contemplated if you can count on someone else to help with lifting the thing for inspections.

The poorer handholds on the Paynes box (compared with a wooden 14x12) makes solo lifting of brood boxes more awkward than I personally find comfortable.

But as a temporary home for the entire colony (no splitting and recombining) its probably the simplest route.



Just as an incidental thing, I'm finding that "warm way" working gives me a clearer distinction between frames with and without brood - particularly coming out of winter with (warm way) frames from the back of the hive being all-stores, rather than being a bit of stores on all frames with the one hive that has been 'cold way'.
With your brood being spread over so many frames, is your long hive entrance on a long or short side?

This is interesting. Our 14x12 Paynes is cold way....the way it arrived. All the honey is stored on the north side...3 frames absolutely full. Also, a panel on the prevailing wind side on 3 frames....they ate this first in the spring.

 

[pargyle]

With your brood being spread over so many frames, is your long hive entrance on a long or short side?

It's in the middle of the long side ... they have honey stores on the very outside frames and the brood is concentrated centred on the entrance .. with brood decreasing the further you get from the entrance on the.

I have my two poly's set up warm way and they have stores at the back of the hive and brood to the front.

I've got optional entrances at either end and I've thought about opening one of those instead of the central one but have never got round to it. Might try it when I've finished the mods and put them back in.

 

[Erichalfbee]

....no handholds.

That's where the Swienty is so much better.

By the way, pargyle.....those are some bees
You must be doing most things just right

 

[pargyle]

You know...you really should build the Zest hive....you know you want to! ....and it will only take a few hours to put together. The colony could have the summer there....and if you then move them back into the long hive....you can always dismantle it....only insulation blocks after all. Then...in addition...you can report your findings on how the colony got on compared to the long hive....in fact you may even decide to leave them in there! Which would mean you wouldn't need your long hive....and so...naturally you could give it to me....Ta Daaa
Also...we had our Paynes 14x12 box above a nadir...nearly killed us moving it....full of winter stores....then we had to reverse it this spring...another hefty lift. I wouldn't ever do it again...as has been said by Itma.....no handholds.

You would need a fork lift truck, a crane and a low loader !! I'm going to have to take it apart to move it round to the chamber of secrets to work on it ... family are very reluctant to go near the bees ... they are even scared of empty hives.

I know what you all mean about the weight though... one of my fat honey filled 14 x 12 frames is about 3.5kg so I don't think I could lift a brood box full of stores on my own ...

 

[pargyle]

That's where the Swienty is so much better.

By the way, pargyle.....those are some bees
You must be doing most things just right

Just lucky ... don't do much apart from talk to them, watch them and let them get on with it ...

 

[Newtobees]

Or if you are not in a rush leave them be for the summer and then when they are reducing for winter put them in the poly 14x12 and over winter them in a nice warm poly box which will give you all winter to do your mods.

 

[pargyle]

Or if you are not in a rush leave them be for the summer and then when they are reducing for winter put them in the poly 14x12 and over winter them in a nice warm poly box which will give you all winter to do your mods.

It's an option but the hive the way it is is driving me round the bend ... I've lived with my mistakes for three years now and it's a bit like the stripey wallpaper that does not quite meet in the last corner of the room ... Every time I see it it grates on me...

The design of the hive is good but it needs a bit of tinkering to make it very good ... it's been a great hive for the bees and it also has my temp and humidity measuring instruments in it so I'd like it back in action well before the end of the season.

 

[jonnybeegood]

No real problem putting another 14 x 12 over - used a 14 x 12 as a super, on occasions, before now. Only wimps or those with bad backs need shy away.

But I reckon the rearrangement will likely trigger a swarm, so you may need an extra box fairly shortly anyway.

RAB

Thats odd when i asked about doing this you said it was madness they would never fill two 14 x 12's, ah well, just as well i didnt listen.

 

[oliver90owner]

Are you really that t----?

He has too many frames for a single box. What do you expect him to do with the rest of the frames? Try thinking in context, just for once.

They are not all brood frames, so an excluder might be another refinement, but that would be far beyond your comprehension, I would think.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Are you really that t----?

He has too many frames for a single box. What do you expect him to do with the rest of the frames? Try thinking in context, just for once.

They are not all brood frames, so an excluder might be another refinement, but that would be far beyond your comprehension, I would think.

Well my return was peaceful untill the old Troll showed up again!

 

[pargyle]

Well my return was peaceful untill the old Troll showed up again!

Actually ... you started it this time ... Post#17 ... now play nicely on my thread please ...

What I am facing is quite a bit different to the question you asked ... I'm not doing this out of choice .. it's out of necessity ... RAB is right - though the way he put it may not have been as tactful as he is normally