What method of swarm control do you use?

[Zante]

What method of swarm control do you use?
Why have you made such a choice?
What methods have you tried that didn't work for you or you didn't like?
Why did you stop using them and/or what didn't you like of them?

These questions are just to get a better idea of the various methods and what people prefer and why (and also for a bit of a chin-wag )

Also, what bees do you have (Buckfast, Italians, Carnolians, local mongrels, etc) and if it's not in your profile what area of the country you're keeping them would be useful.

I wanted to get an idea of what people use and why after reading Wally Shaw's document about swarm control where he says that he found the Pagden method to have a failure rate of 50%, but I get the idea that the method is still very popular.
I thought that asking/polling people who are actually doing swarm control would be the best way to get some clarification both on that statement on the Pagden and on the methods used themselves in general.

 

[Millet]

I did this, it did not work and i will not be doing it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VGkjeLycY

 

[Erichalfbee]

I did this, it did not work and i will not be doing it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VGkjeLycY

Pagden. I don't like it. I used to do it and I reckon it had a 50% failure rate so I agree with Wally.
I prefer The Modified Snelgrove per Wally Shaw. You don't have to find the queen and strip down a busy box looking for queen cells.
Bees hate being shaken off frames. The only QCs you have to deal with are on two frames 9 days later.
I have one box of Buckies. The queen is from HM and they are a joy to work. I have a swarm from who knows where last year. The bees are darkish with one orange stripe. They are a little feisty but they survived the winter I lost others and are making lots of honey. They are in the middle of a Snelgrove split.
I have slightly darker bees from a little further west of the county. I don't know their provenance but the really kind forum member who gave them to me describes them as "nice bees" and lastly I united two small colonies on their knees in the spring, the queen survived long enough to lay a few eggs for these to make a couple of supersedure cells which were swapped for a queen from Ricky Wilson. These bees are quite black. The queen is laying well but none of her brood have emerged yet so temperament-wise ....I don't know

 

[Millet]

Pagden. I don't like it. I used to do it and I reckon it had a 50% failure rate
I prefer The Modified Snelgrove per Wally Shaw

I will read up on that in the future, i was toying with the demaree method but unforeseen circumstances totally ruled that out.

 

[user 6228]

Our own much simplified variation of the taranov board.
We found the methods that relied on finding the queen .... problematic... so after a prompt on here to look at the taranov . We tried it and found manipulating the board contraption difficult in confined spaces and prone to drop bees. so we then simplified it down to a sheet, a bucket and a simple square board.
The idea is to make sure the queen isnt in the original box and therefore on the sheet.. much simpler than finding the queen.
We also leave the bees on the board for 1/2 hour to 1 hour to make sure they get the full swarm experience.
foolproof? well its worked for us.

 

[Erichalfbee]

JBM is brilliant at Demaree, ask him how he does it. I can't lift boxes that high, being a mere girl and I fear Stan couldn't obey my instructions properly without us falling out.

 

[Zante]

JBM is brilliant at Demaree, as him how he does it. I can't lift boxes that high, being a mere girl and I fear Stan couldn't obey my instructions properly without us falling out.

From what I've seen so far I'm liking the Demaree method best, but I guess I'll have to see for myself. I'm finding Wally Shaw's document very interesting though. Since I'm planning on keeping two colonies (hold the laughter please I know it's going to be more very soon ) I suppose I can try both methods at the same time and compare the results after a few years.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Demarree (swarm avoidance) is my primary weapon, sometimes though, they get ready to get going before I do so in the past I've use Pagden (as with most - 50% success rate) started experimenting with Wally Shaw's 'snelgrove II' method this year and I'm beginning to like it - no more or less fuss than a Pagden - same with the amount of kit you need and seems to have better results.

 

[Brigsy]

Not that my opinion is worth much, I have tried the Wally Shaw Snelgrove 2. For a new keeper, at the "Oh they are going to try and swarm' moment, all one needs to find are two frames with eggs/young brood is nice and easy.

 

[beeno]

I like to keep things simple with the minimum use of kit and effort. So, I have migrated from Pagden to just making up a small nuc for the old queen which came in handy last year when I lost the new queen to MAQS treatment, so they got the old one back.

 

[madasafish]

I like to keep things simple with the minimum use of kit and effort. So, I have migrated from Pagden to just making up a small nuc for the old queen which came in handy last year when I lost the new queen to MAQS treatment, so they got the old one back.

Agree.

I tend to re-unite swarms before winter.. Give strong colonies for winter

 

[Zante]

I like to keep things simple with the minimum use of kit and effort. So, I have migrated from Pagden to just making up a small nuc for the old queen which came in handy last year when I lost the new queen to MAQS treatment, so they got the old one back.

Could you describe in more detail what you do, please?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't now about beeno but I use a two frame nuc if I want to nuc the queen. Poly nuc. One frame emerging brood. One frame food. Rest drawn frame. Queen. Plenty of nurse bees. Move well away from original colony. Swap food brood frames around when brood has emerged. Back at other box, reduce queen cells to one good open one. Go back six days later to remove any newly made emergency cells.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Pagden. I don't like it. I used to do it and I reckon it had a 50% failure rate so I agree with Wally.
I prefer The Modified Snelgrove per Wally Shaw.

This looks like a great method if you are too late to Demaree. By lifting the main BB over the supers (if you use a Snelgrove board, as I do in a tiny apiary in a corner of a garden) it has a lot in common with Demaree, which I use a lot (except the Q goes too in Mod Snelgrove). Will definitely try next time.

 

[Vortex]

Running B+H I suffer with the usual issue when performing an AS .. locating the queen, so most of the time I don't explicitly bother.
With B+H the QC are invariably on the underside of the half (usually the super) and invariably 30% get destroyed when you split the boxes (stuck to the top of the lower box).
At this point I make a 4 or 5 frame Nuc or Nucs (depends on number of total frames of brood), each nuc being 1 frame stores, 1 Brood frame capped brood, and at least 1 frame with a QC (capped or otherwise). All other QCs in the original hive are destroyed.
About 5% of the time I inadvertently move the queen to the nuc so will get QC but no eggs the following week in the original colony and eggs and destroyed QCs in the Nuc.
I've been caught out once with them hiding a QC in the BB, and on a couple occasions where I've only made up a single nuc had to make a second split the following week.

 

[Lancs Lad]

You read time and time again to either leave the queen with some brood or transfer her on a frame of brood, if you do this you do not take the swarming impulse out of the hive with the queen, and if she is prolific you chance another swarm. Like Beeno I catch the queen and put her in a 5 frame nuc with foundation and shake a good load of bees in and transfer to another apiary, as near as possible this replicates a swarm.

 

[Eyeman]

Running B+H I suffer with the usual issue when performing an AS .. locating the queen, so most of the time I don't explicitly bother.

Vortex, have you had a look at the Snellgrove 2 method described by Wally Shaw as it would suit your set up.

 

[Millet]

You read time and time again to either leave the queen with some brood or transfer her on a frame of brood, if you do this you do not take the swarming impulse out of the hive with the queen, and if she is prolific you chance another swarm. Like Beeno I catch the queen and put her in a 5 frame nuc with foundation and shake a good load of bees in and transfer to another apiary, as near as possible this replicates a swarm.

I did similar and placed the queen and all the flying bees in a new box full of undrawn foundation on the original spot so all the flying bees went back to the original spot, they still swarmed two days later.

 

[Motobiman]

May I ask, in the Taranov scheme the Cushman website says the AS can be kept in the same apiary provided it is not positioned too close to the old hive.

What is considered 'too close'?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't now about beeno but I use a two frame nuc if I want to nuc the queen. Poly nuc. One frame emerging brood. One frame food. Rest drawn frame. Queen. Plenty of nurse bees. Move well away from original colony. Swap food brood frames around when brood has emerged. Back at other box, reduce queen cells to one good open one. Go back six days later to remove any newly made emergency cells.

The one downside is, you lose productivity as your main foraging force has to wait for a new queen to get mated and laying to build up again.

You read time and time again to either leave the queen with some brood or transfer her on a frame of brood, if you do this you do not take the swarming impulse out of the hive with the queen, ........... I catch the queen and put her in a 5 frame nuc with foundation and shake a good load of bees in and transfer to another apiary, as near as possible this replicates a swarm.

Not really - you leave most of the flying bees with the main colony - if you're not spot on and reduce the QC's down to one and cull any EQC's, they could swarm with the first virgin out.
You are better off, if you use the nuc method, keeping the queen in the same apiary - if you move them a distance away, fair chance you have the queen, a fair proportion of flying bees in swarming mode and, all of a sudden an even smaller smaller hive. good chance they'll go.