What Mating Nuc do you use and why?

[3bees]

I am going to try Queen Rearing this year. There is so much conflicting advice out there. Some say that virgin queens are mated more quickly from Mini Mating Nucs than from Nucs with standard frame sizes, others say the opposite.

Before spending anymore money on equipment (I have noted the competitive price of Mann Lakes Mini Mating Nucs) it would be good to hear your experiences.

Thanks

 

[Goran]

More qucikly doesn't mean always better mated. I believe for the quality, bigger is better. I know that some even restrict entrances with QE of mating nucs to virgins don't go for mating before 4th day after emerging.
I use half frame lang mnucs with 5 hf, in my modest experience it is suitable for me. I don't place QE at the entrances..

 

[masterBK]

I have 20 mininucs (15 apidea and 5 of the cheap swinbine type sold by Mannlake) and 10 nucleus boxes taking 5 standard brood frames. I also get queens mated from Demaree tops ie full size BC with own entrance on top of colonies. Over the years I have found that queens get mated and are laying about 11 days after emergence in mininucs (earliest 7 days) and about 15 to 20 days in the 5 comb boxes (actually use 3 combs and dummy board in most cases) and similar time with demaree tops although sometimes they take a a few days more. However likely to lose a few from mininucs due to absconding (can use excluder over entrance to stop absconding after they have started laying but can't stop them absconding before that very easily. If you need to produce alot of queens using mating nuclei with standard frames can seriously deplete colonies and less honey produced although you can do it if you fit everything in with your swarm control system.

 

[Finman]

I am going to try Queen Rearing this year. There is so much conflicting advice out there. Some say that virgin queens are mated more quickly from Mini Mating Nucs than from Nucs with standard frame sizes, others say the opposite.

Thanks

Mating does not depend on nuc size. It depends on weather.


I use 3 langstroth frame nucs. Then I am not in a hurry to situate mated queens.
.

 

[Finman]

More qucikly doesn't mean always better mated. I believe for the quality, bigger is better..

Do not worry. You have no influence on that.

 

[mbc]

I've tried lots, apidea, kielers the half size langstroth double nucs sold by parks, mini plus and full size five frame nucs.
After a successful winter and having loads of bees survive I think full size frame nucs make more sense, otherwise I'm fond of the mini plus format.

 

[Finman]

.
Full size frame mating nucs are easy

- I split a polybox with table saw. Then I glue 3 cm styrofoam piece into the site of missing wall (PU glue)

- When I take a laying queen off, I can join the colony to another nuc. Pile and you get 6-frame nuc.

- in autumn I empty those all nucs. Then it is easy to join brood and bees to normal wintering hives, and I get strong colonies.

*** it would be better to clean mating nucs from varroa when queen begin to lay. Brood off and oxalic trickling.

 

[B+.]

Mating does not depend on nuc size. It depends on weather.

.

However, semen migration to the spermatheca is aided by the queens movement inside the mating colony.
When the queen returns from her mating flight(s) the "mating sign" (the endophallus of the last drone to mate with her) glows ultra-violet in the darkness of the hive. The workers chase the queen around to remove it and this movement helps the semen to move to the spermatheca. If there are fewer workers in the nuc, it is sensible to suggest that she can evade them easier so less semen will migrate into the spermatheca.
I do believe that larger mating nucs provide better post-mating conditions for the queen

 

[Finman]

.
I wonder to where guys need fast mating. When the queen starts to lay, it has no cells where to lay. For where speed can be used ? My full frames are limited too, but I do not need to move the queen to bigger hive during a month.

A day here or there has no meaning in this job. Not even a week.

 

[Eyeman]

I do believe that larger mating nucs provide better post-mating conditions for the queen

I have the feeling that queens mated in mini nucs are superceded more often than those I mate in my 3F nucs. It may be the Q in the 3F nucs having more space can get her egg laying rate up to speed before she joins a full hive. Those in min nucs have their egg laying rate restricted so when transferred to a full size hive the workers feel she's not up to the job !
Must learn to keep better records.
What do others think?

 

[Hivemaker.]

However, semen migration to the spermatheca is aided by the queens movement inside the mating colony.
When the queen returns from her mating flight(s) the "mating sign" (the endophallus of the last drone to mate with her) glows ultra-violet in the darkness of the hive. The workers chase the queen around to remove it and this movement helps the semen to move to the spermatheca. If there are fewer workers in the nuc, it is sensible to suggest that she can evade them easier so less semen will migrate into the spermatheca.
I do believe that larger mating nucs provide better post-mating conditions for the queen

and pre-mating conditions.

 

[Poly Hive]

Not disagreeing as that seems logical.

However.

Not being a German reader or speaker do they still use those very small mating units for the islands?

PH

 

[B+.]

Not disagreeing as that seems logical.

However.

Not being a German reader or speaker do they still use those very small mating units for the islands?

PH

ein waben kasten (ewk) = one frame nuc

Yes. They are used on the island mating stations in the Waden Sea

 

[Eyeman]

Thought this small cluster of bees behind the Apidea had absconded from the Apidea.
There were bees in the Apidea but not as many as I would have expected. The Apidea had a mated queen which I didn't see, although I didn't spend much time looking as it was getting dark.

When I picked the mini swarm up on a dustpan it was clearly twice or three times the size of what I thought went into the Apidea so I popped in into a 3 frame standard nuc.
Will check in few days to try and make out what happened- it probably did abscond because I put too many bees in the Apidea!

 

[Eyeman]

Congested Apidea



After the 3rd round of queen mating the Apidea is getting congested.
What I do is:
1. Once the mated queen has been removed I put a new Apidea on the old site and put one of the brood frame into the new Apidea and 2 frames with started strips of foundation. The old Apidea is moved to a new site and a frame with a starter strip of foundation inserted.
The new Apidea gets the flyers and some new bees from the emerging brood and the old Apidea is decongested.
2. Take the feeder compartment out and insert 2 new frames with starter strips.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The photograph labelled as an Apidea, is of a Swi-bine, they do not have a removable feed compartment to remove, so as to add extra frames.

 

[Eyeman]

Thanks Hivemaker my mistake,
It's one from Mann Lakes less than a tenner range. Work really well and the wooden top bars are easy to handle. Just need a plastic inner cover to make them just as versatile as an Apidea. Except as you point out you can't add extra frames.

 

[sugarbush]

I see no reason to buy special mating nucs and put effort into populating them. I simply use a spare brood chamber divided into 4 compartments that each hold 2 frames and with a bottom entrance out each side. When I need a nuc for mating I pull two frames out of a productive colony and when done I put them back in the colony they came out o,f or use them to make up 5 frame nucs.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I see no reason to buy special mating nucs and put effort into populating them. I simply use a spare brood chamber divided into 4 compartments that each hold 2 frames and with a bottom entrance out each side.

For me it's a matter of volume. Right now I'm running more than 630 mating nuclei. Each has 4 full depth/half length langstroth combs. When finished mating queens for the year, they are wintered. In spring, dead mating nucs are stacked on live mating nucs, to fill enough frames with brood and bees so the mating apiaries can be re-established for the mating season. There is no way I could do this, and catch 150 or so queens every 4 days, by using "queen castle" type mating boxes with deep combs.

 

[Eyeman]

I see no reason to buy special mating nucs and put effort into populating them. I simply use a spare brood chamber divided into 4 compartments that each hold 2 frames and with a bottom entrance out each side. When I need a nuc for mating I pull two frames out of a productive colony and when done I put them back in the colony they came out o,f or use them to make up 5 frame nucs.

Tried that and if it works for you then fine. It's too fiddly for my set up and as I'm doing repeat matings then its easier with separate boxes.
Also only 300 bees needed for a mini nuc and no significant impact on the honey production colonies.
After a bad day with the bees there is nothing better to restore ones belief that all bees aren't aggressive than to open a mini mating nuc. I look on them as the beekeepers 'comfort blanket'