Adapting Kit To Make Mating Nucs

[Mabee]

I found this link to making mini mating nucs from a Langstroth shallow brood box http://www.waikatobeekeepers.org.nz/media/1476/how-to-make-a-mini-mating-nuc.pdf and as I'm planning ahead, wanted to explore mating nucs. I have various poly nuc boxes and 2 x 3 frame wooden nucs, but as I want to try queen rearing next year and I want to save some money by modifying my excess existing equipment. Has anyone modified their nuc boxes (poly) to make 3 frame nucs or a national super maybe (poly) to make 4 mini mating nucs, if so could you let me see what you did, might help with the decision and creative process.

 

[rolande]

Michael Palmer has written some really detailed posts regards the four way conversion on beesource. We've done a few with modified dadant supers although I do prefer our twin boxes rather than 4 way.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Tried using half of a wooden national super divided into 3 with 3 half size super frames. Each section had a wooden box as a frame feeder with fondant in it (not ideal). Easiest to make using new boxes and frames.
Only did one round of 3 cells from a Ben Harden cell raiser. One absconded, 2 queens mated and laying but one of these went missing. Successfully mated a queen from a spare swarm cell thereafter.
. . . . Ben

 

[Mabee]

Tried using half of a wooden national super divided into 3 with 3 half size super frames. Each section had a wooden box as a frame feeder with fondant in it (not ideal). Easiest to make using new boxes and frames.
Only did one round of 3 cells from a Ben Harden cell raiser. One absconded, 2 queens mated and laying but one of these went missing. Successfully mated a queen from a spare swarm cell thereafter.
. . . . Ben

Thank you, I did wonder about a nuc super maybe but frames running as normal, so 2 x 2 frame supers? Were they just too small do you think?

 

[Mabee]

Michael Palmer has written some really detailed posts regards the four way conversion on beesource. We've done a few with modified dadant supers although I do prefer our twin boxes rather than 4 way.

View attachment 28964View attachment 28965

I think this would be more what I'd like to do but with poly hives

 

[Swarm]

I have some old brood boxes partitioned to form 3x3 frames, cells or virgins start in these. I do have some split into 2x5 frames, with separate 5 frame boxes to add above as needed. Packers can be added to reduce the space until they expand.

 

[rolande]

Thank you, I did wonder about a nuc super maybe but frames running as normal, so 2 x 2 frame supers? Were they just too small do you think?

We've done boxes with the same footprint as a nuc to get combs drawn/stocked/overwintered for mating nucs and we're now in the process of making a lot more of these, with a division board, so that they can be converted into twin mating nucs...

 

[Goran]

Some older pics..

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/transfer-from-mating-nuc-to-nuc-a.2918/https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/transfer-from-mating-nuc-to-nuc-b.2919/https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/transfer-from-mating-nuc-to-nuc-c.2920/https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/half-frames.2820/https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/1st-mating-nuc.2813/https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/mating-nuc.3085/https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/mnucs.3682/

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Thank you, I did wonder about a nuc super maybe but frames running as normal, so 2 x 2 frame supers? Were they just too small do you think?

I didn't want to have a new frame size so previously have divided brood boxes into 2 and 3. But this uses a lot of wax and bees.
A half super divided into 3 is a similar size to the mating nucs I've seen. So you need only a cup full of bees in each division to start them off.

2 of these half supers can go on top of a standard box to do a newspaper unite, with last remaining queen, or get the frames drawn out or the honey taken down or the brood to emerge.

 

[Mabee]

I didn't want to have a new frame size so previously have divided brood boxes into 2 and 3. But this uses a lot of wax and bees.
A half super divided into 3 is a similar size to the mating nucs I've seen. So you need only a cup full of bees in each division to start them off.

2 of these half supers can go on top of a standard box to do a newspaper unite, with last remaining queen, or get the frames drawn out or the honey taken down or the brood to emerge.

I quite like this idea, How did you construct the frames? I could obviously just chop some super frames shorter but yours look more professional!

 

[Parsonage Bees]

I quite like this idea, How did you construct the frames? I could obviously just chop some super frames shorter but yours look more professional!

No, I used 2nd quality boxes and frames from the Thorne sale because all of the dimensions are right. I have access to a table saw which makes it easier to keep things square and repeatable. Make the box first and then the frames to fit. Frame sides are standard and the size and position of the mortices can be copied from the other end of the top bar.

From my minimal experience with mating queens, these nucs are very small. Somewhere I saw a recommendation that ideally queens should be laying for 3 weeks before introducing to new colony . ? Keeping a queen on 3 little frames for that long, they might abscond or starve. Maybe bigger mating nucs would be better. Don't know.
The one queen I successfully grafted and got mated and laying, I tried introducing her to a colony as soon as she was laying and they rejected her. Sample of one.

 

[rolande]

I quite like this idea, How did you construct the frames? I could obviously just chop some super frames shorter but yours look more professional!

Although this question is directed to Parsonage bees I thought I'd offer my thoughts on the matter. We did try proper frames in these small nucs and do still use them in the half length dadant boxes however the smaller, half length bs ones have all been switched to 'half' frames as I reckon we were losing a useful amount of comb area which although it doesn't look to be a great deal in the photos does, I believe, make a lot of impact in these small boxes.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I too use a mating box that is half the size of a langstroth. Two can be located above Lang to get populated with bees and brood. The mating hive has a follower board, dividing the box in half. The bottom board has an entrance on each end...cfreating a 2-way mating box. After the last catch, followers are moved to an end wall...in one box...one queen. Another set up the same way but with no queens. The two are united, and the double story mating nuc hive is wintered. In the spring, when cells are ripe, it is broken down into two 2-ways. We're running something like 512 minis during the mating season.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Also this.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Much of what Paul does is similar to what we do here in Vermont. One big difference...we winter the mating nucs. In the spring we have BIAS, and no need for a pheromone strip to hold the bees in the nuc. My followers on each side of that central divider are movable feeders. The feeders are moved to the side walls, and united with another. This leaves each as a two story colony with 16 combs and one queen one each side of the central divider. Most winter very well and are a source of spring queens at a time before we have new queens for the season. After using them in May to create the season's mating nucs, the leftovers are combined with one of the wintered queens. This unit becomes a colony and can be a decent honey producer. Extra mating combs ore located on the bottom board and given a deep box of comb/foundation. We made up about 40 new colonies this past spring...a great source of of colonies to help re-stock apiaries with winter losses.

 

[rolande]

I too use a mating box that is half the size of a langstroth. Two can be located above Lang to get populated with bees and brood. The mating hive has a follower board, dividing the box in half. The bottom board has an entrance on each end...cfreating a 2-way mating box. After the last catch, followers are moved to an end wall...in one box...one queen. Another set up the same way but with no queens. The two are united, and the double story mating nuc hive is wintered. In the spring, when cells are ripe, it is broken down into two 2-ways. We're running something like 512 minis during the mating season.

We also have a very similar unit but are able to get away with mediums in our location. It's a very good design but will probably be phased out as the new twin boxes mentioned above (built on the bs nuc footprint) become available - simply to give us greater flexibility as we don't use the langstroth footprint.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/twin-mating-nucs.50812/

 

[Goran]

With mating nucs we use.. we start with qcell, not the queen.. Sometimes I left in the ordinary colonies over winter 2 frames made of 2 half frames each. In spring 1 goes up in super to bees fill with stores, 1 down in BB to fill with brood. It remains such till I need to make mnuc. When needed I take 2 of these frames ( 2 half frames with stores and 2 half frames with brood) and add one half frame with foundation. In such way I don't worry for now to bees will abscond, due to open brood present they are anchored ( until they prove me wrong)
I stopped to use feeder, I place piece of fondant on top bars in rim I made. When I see that needed more food I pull out one frame ( 2 half frames attached) full with stores from another hive in the super and replace.

At the end of season I merge 3-4 into one colony and leave with one queen. Since they are all united into new hive there isn't fighting among them, some if want to be cautious place between each mini nuc in the new hive frame with honey, so they unite over food and add q in cage..

This way suits my extensive beekeeping, since I am not migratory beek and somewhat amateur - looking to reduce operations and time needed. Once I made double nuc, I must say it doesn't fits me. I am more for separate made nucs/ mnucs. I like these mnucs which are in fact one little colony, which some use to play and even enlarge by giving them boxes and making chimney.. Very many options to play with it..

 

[Hebeegeebee]

After using Apideas/SwiBines and my own mini-nucs with super frames cut down to 140 x 140 mm, I still see absconding on hot days as the colonies are too small to regulate their temperature. (Less losses from the bigger frame sized boxes, as you would expect). Abelo Mini plus boxes seem to work OK with no absconding so far and are pretty much self-supporting in that old queens can be parked in them and they are big enough to get through winter OK, especially if you stack a couple which makes it quite a big box. Then split in spring and put queencells in as required. (I don't uses them as split boxes with a queen in each side as they are too fiddly). Mini-plus boxes can sit on a queen excluder on a National/Langstroth brood box for uniting, with a brood box around it, if you need to do that. I have knocked up a couple of wooden boxes to take mini-plus frames too, which work OK. The mini plus frames tend to get stuck together as the hoffman bit is not correct (flat both sides) so the frames need a bit of adjustment with a chisel before use. You can make up frames by cutting down National frames to fit in the mini-plus boxes if you wish.

The alternative is to use a frame of bees/brood from a full-sized colony in a small nuc. In spring a polynuc will do fine without the need for dummying down to reduce space as they are fairly easy to heat.

 

[jeff33]

I have made these which take 5 half super frames. I start them of with 3 frames + internal feeder then when established remove the feeder and add 2 extra frames. The bottom can be removed to stack them up. When I have finished for the season the frames with brood go in a super til emerged. I can also put them in the super to get drawn and filled when there is a flow on to feed the mini nucs

 

[Parsonage Bees]

I have made these which take 5 half super frames. I start them of with 3 frames + internal feeder then when established remove the feeder and add 2 extra frames. The bottom can be removed to stack them up. When I have finished for the season the frames with brood go in a super til emerged. I can also put them in the super to get drawn and filled when there is a flow on to feed the mini nucs

How did you make an internal feeder? I made a plywood box and put fondant in it. Better if it held syrup. I've been looking for some type of plastic container that would fit.