What I should be doing now?

[AndreaW]

Newbie with a nuc that is now a few months old.

Okay so at present I have one super on that I have been occasionally giving them sugar syrup for to help them draw out the foundation - they weren't drawing out the comb before that.
I need to inspect tomorrow, but just over a week ago they had probably drawn it out on 80% of the frames but only partially on each frame - frames are cold way. I am hoping they will have drawn out more now.

I was going to leave that super on as stores for the winter, does that make sense? Also when should I put the apiguard on and mouse guards (presuming this is when I close them up for winter). I have a solid floor but was going to change that for a varroa floor next spring, haven't uncapped any drone brood to see what the count is at all yet.

Will this be all I need to do before I close them up for winter, other than inspections and when do I close them up for winter?

Still so much to learn, have had to miss a few BKA meetings so feel out of touch at moment

 

[AndreaW]

Oh and I was going to go back to feeding again after inspection tomorrow if they hadn't filled the super up completely themselves. I have an Ashforth but have currently been using a contact feeder.

 

[drstitson]

what is happening in the brood box itself? frames drawn, amount of brood/stores? i know you are aiming for brood and half for stores but even so brood box should have been sorted first.

do you have a QE on?

 

[AndreaW]

what is happening in the brood box itself? frames drawn, amount of brood/stores? i know you are aiming for brood and half for stores but even so brood box should have been sorted first.

do you have a QE on?

Queen excluder on Brood box was doing well last inspection, frames at ends full of stores, 3 frames in middle full of brood, either capped, hatching or larvae. Didn't look at rest as trying not to inspect every frame each time. Lots and lots of bees.

First year so I am not completely sure what I am doing at which point, I know I won't be able to take any honey off this year and not really sure if they have made much anyway as I have been feeding them to draw out foundation.

 

[AndreaW]

Oh meant to say that all frames are nicely drawn out on BB - only moved on to putting the super on once this had been done as the brood box was completely filled with stores or capped brood at one point.

 

[drstitson]

no need for QE if super is for stores not harvest!!!!

AND it MUST be removed before winter shutdown.

 

[drex]

In Essex, I have been having no problem overwintering on standard National BB alone. I fear you may have put on super too early and ? without need ( extra space for them to heat). Really need to know state of your whole brood box and the super. I do not add super until BB is 75 % full.

As above , if you do keep the super on for winter, you must remove the QE before your final inspection.

 

[VEG]

I think you are asking a lot of your bees with a super on with only 3 frames of brood.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think you are asking a lot of your bees with a super on with only 3 frames of brood.

7 or 8 frames of brood (note NOT brood on 7 or 8 frames) before supering.
That's what I learned on my courses and countless times here on the forum.
These drawn brood frames should be filling with stores for winter leaving room for winter bees though.

 

[beeatshellards]

I am slightly confused : as in your previous post on a different thread you said the bees were drawing out comb on the supers, on this thread you stated you wanted to leave it on for stores for the winter. If the bees are still drawing comb, the brood box is not full of bees yet you cannot expect the bees to draw out comb, fill the brood box and put stores in the supers, concentrate your efforts on the brood box, or the bees will continue in the supers to no avail

 

[AndreaW]

sorry wasn't very clear. Pretty sure there are more than 3 frames of brood, well at time of supering anyway. I probably did put super on too early though. Just thought I should be getting them to put stores in super rather than brood pm that queen had more room to lay in. Can I not leave a super on with stores, just wanted them to make it through winter.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pretty sure there are more than 3 frames of brood, well at time of supering anyway. Can I not leave a super on with stores, just wanted them to make it through winter.

Not if you have only three or so frames of brood. How much brood is on each frame? Do you have a honey and pollen arch then brood?
If there are stores in the super and all/most of the brood frames are drawn then put a crownboard with an open feeding hole between the super and the brood. The bees will move the stores from the super to the brood box where it belongs for the winter. If they don't move it then try putting it below the brood box.
REMOVE any queen excluder in the equation

 

[drex]

For me in Essex it is still a bit early to be thinking of concrete plans for overwintering. Probably at end of month I will take off my honey crop, treat for varroa, then feed as needed in preparation for winter.

Note the "as needed". From previous monitoring I know that a varroa treatment is indicated. Depending on what I see re stores on future inspections, will determine how much I will feed.

This is only my second full year of keeping bees, but the message I have received loud and clear from my BBKA course, and on here, is to listen or look to what my bees are telling me, then to act accordingly. I often fall down by lack of experience, in interpreting the message, but for me it makes sense to do things this way, rather than by the book ( of which I have read many) or the calendar.

I really would suggest a full proper inspection, so that you at least know what is going on in your hive. This forum will help with the interpretation, even if you will receive many different and sometimes conflicting opinions!!

 

[AndreaW]

For me in Essex it is still a bit early to be thinking of concrete plans for overwintering. Probably at end of month I will take off my honey crop, treat for varroa, then feed as needed in preparation for winter.

Note the "as needed". From previous monitoring I know that a varroa treatment is indicated. Depending on what I see re stores on future inspections, will determine how much I will feed.

This is only my second full year of keeping bees, but the message I have received loud and clear from my BBKA course, and on here, is to listen or look to what my bees are telling me, then to act accordingly. I often fall down by lack of experience, in interpreting the message, but for me it makes sense to do things this way, rather than by the book ( of which I have read many) or the calendar.

I really would suggest a full proper inspection, so that you at least know what is going on in your hive. This forum will help with the interpretation, even if you will receive many different and sometimes conflicting opinions!!

Thanks I think I am just panicing. I started off doing full inspections when I was looking at a friend's hives for him. I then got the impression from a few people and books that I shouldn't really be looking at everyframe - so I have concentrated on seeing that they have stores or seeing what is happening at the outside frames and looking at the 3 middle frames to see if there are any queen cells and whether there are several stages of brood and also the pattern looks okay. As these were my bees I was nervous of upsetting them - stupid I know.

The bb is completely drawn out - the guy I bought the nuc from recommended feeding until this was the case.

I am getting a bit confused with stores though. I was worried that there were lots of stores being put into the brood box - reason I put the super on as everything was full of brood or stores - no empty cells. This was probably wrong! My mentor suggested feeding to get them to draw out the wax on the supers. This was around the time of the July flow. I wanted them to move the stores up into the super. Now everyone on here seems to be wanting the stores to move down which I can understand for winter. I am a bit confused as to what I should do now as I probably have sugar stores rather than honey (??) and obviously don't want to take this off as a honey harvest

If I put the crownboard in between the super and BB will they just move the stores into the best place for the time of year then and why do I need to take off the QE - is that because they will cluster and stay with the queen and move around the hive in bulk and therefore won't touch the super if there is a QE on? Do I need to get another crownboard to do this to put one on top as well - sorry if this is obvious.

I might get the hang of this eventually!!! Typical can't tell you the state of BB and super now as the rain has been down and I was meant to do an inspection today which is overdue (11 days today). Hoping for sun tomorrow.

 

[oliver90owner]

AndreaW,

That is what makes beekeping such an interesting hobby. Things are not regimented at particular times and compromise is required, from the book instructions to actually doing it. The weather is an important factor as is the cropping times for modern day crops (generally earlier and of shorter duration than of decades past and gone).

One aspect that some are not up to speed with. New beeks want to be instant beekeepers and it doesn't happen like that.

In time you will realise the errors you have made or been told. Like feeding - some will say feed, feed, feed; I say feed as necessary. Some will say must feed fondant over the winter; I didn't feed any fondant last winter and they still had too much stores left this Spring! I checked, and didn't feed because they didn't need it.

I would think you are likely to be getting some sugar syrup in your super unless the the bees don't need to move any stores.

Your priority from now on is to make sure there are plenty of bees ready for the winter and that they are healthy bees - minimum varroa (vectors for viral diseases or worse -cause colony collapse through damage to brood, by sheer numbers) and nosema free. By October/November your colony may be substantially broodless and all the bees present will need to live through the winter, with minimal mortality, to provide a strong vibrant colony for the next season expansion.

Wrt the Q/E. If left on, the worker bees will pass through the excluder to get to the stores, but will leave behind the queen and she will die of cold. May not happen, but is a possibility which is not good for the well-being of the colony!!

I don't have the problem of having supers on - 14 x 12 is big enough as it is, but the best place to put honey, if you want it moved, is below where you want it moved to. Putting the box below the brood nest would result in them moving the honey up. That is what I used to do before going to the larger format.

Regards, RAB

 

[AndreaW]

Your priority from now on is to make sure there are plenty of bees ready for the winter and that they are healthy bees - minimum varroa (vectors for viral diseases or worse -cause colony collapse through damage to brood, by sheer numbers) and nosema free.

So if I have a super full of sugar syrup, is it a good idea to take it off now and treat with apiguard and then replace and reconsider the situation with stores then as a few have suggested?

I don't have the problem of having supers on - 14 x 12 is big enough as it is, but the best place to put honey, if you want it moved, is below where you want it moved to. Putting the box below the brood nest would result in them moving the honey up. That is what I used to do before going to the larger format.

Regards, RAB

My BB is a commercial so I don't think I should have any problem either. It still getting used to what I need to do when they do this and this etc. Appreciate a learning curve, just don't want to mess up too badly When I look tomorrow weather being okay if there are enough stores in the BB should I bother putting it underneath - what would constitute enough stores in BB though at this stage - I still thought I needed to feed at the end of this month......aaaagh never going to get this.

Thanks for the comments - think I need to stop and breathe a bit and listen to my buzzy friends

 

[oliver90owner]

So if I have a super full of sugar syrup, is it a good idea to take it off now and treat with apiguard and then replace and reconsider the situation with stores then as a few have suggested?

Yes, from the point of view of hive size for the apiguard sachets. If you have a full super of sugar syrup, it matters not a lot as it is only bee feed really.

Do not stuff the brood absolutely full of stores at the present time, or there may not be space for rearing the winter bees! You have choices. You could pad out the sides of your boxes and overwinter on fewer brood frames with a similarly padded-out super above.

I am presently making up 'twenty +' dummy frames to be able to do just that with my 14 x 12s, but will still not be over-wintering with a super over. IMO, they just do not need that much. (In my case, I have costed out that the dummies (a couple of sheets of 6mm ply plus the softwood) will be self financing, as 20 frames of 14 x 12 honey will more than offset the cost of materials)

Your main problem is that perennial one of just the one colony. With more (next year?) than one, you have so many more choices/options to mix and match. Makes it sooo much easier to get most, or all, in good shape for the winter.

You won't mess up if you have that much winter stores available already, so no worries there.

Regards, RAB

 

[AndreaW]

Thanks RAB,
Have ordered an eke for apiguard and the sun is shining here today so will actually get to have a look in the hive.

Planning on getting another hive for next year so if mine make it through the winter I should have something to play with next year.

Andrea