What did you do in the Apiary today?

[Nannysbees]

hives 'bursting' after a swarm is nothing unusual

That's really interesting

 

[alancooper]

that's usually a sign of them expecting another dearth - no point in capping stores if they expect to have to eat it soon

I interpreted this in my apiary as an indication that so much Bramble nectar was being foraged that there was a temporary brood box bottleneck during the process of moving it to supers. Why might this not be the case?

 

[Swarm]

They won't waste energy if they don't need to, if the nectar is flowing in they concentrate on processing, sealing it can wait until they are ready. If people took a refractometer with them to the apiary, they would probably find quite a few of those uncapped supers contain viable honey.

 

[The Poot]

I interpreted this in my apiary as an indication that so much Bramble nectar was being foraged that there was a temporary brood box bottleneck during the process of moving it to supers. Why might this not be the case?

That’s my view too. I doubt the bees can forecast a dearth when a flow is on, but it’s food for thought.

 

[Paul_Ward1]

sounds like a plan, introduce the new queen immediately on despatching the old, break the tab off 24 hours later

OK. Queen dispatched. New VQ introduced immediately in cage. Tab removed 24 hours later. Had a look 6 days later to check she had been released from the cage. All ok but there were about 20 queen cells over 2 frames. Does this mean they have killed the VQ or is it normal for this to happen and the QC get torn down. What do you suggest please?

 

[Swarm]

OK. Queen dispatched. New VQ introduced immediately in cage. Tab removed 24 hours later. Had a look 6 days later to check she had been released from the cage. All ok but there were about 20 queen cells over 2 frames. Does this mean they have killed the VQ or is it normal for this to happen and the QC get torn down. What do you suggest please?

Better to have them hopelessly queenless if you are introducing a virgin, that way the bees find what they expect. If they have eggs they don't expect to find a virgin in the hive. You need to break down the emergency cells but you have no idea if she is still alive ( I take it being a virgin she was not marked? )

 

[Sutty]

A triple-brood colony had QCs with eggs in & one just about with a smear of jelly last week, I removed the QCs and placed the bottom pretty empty box above the QE below the supers (with another QE in top in case she was in there.
They had produced QCs as expected today, a couple just about sealed.
I couldn't find the queen (always been elusive) despite going through both boxes several times.
So.. put the "empty" deep on the floor and shook/brushed all the bees off both brood boxes into it (with a spare box temporarily on top as a funnel), added a QE and then the brood chambers (cut back to 1 open QC).
Plan is 1st thing tomorrow move the top 2 brood chambers to the side and leave the bottom box and some supers as an artificial swarm in the presumption the queen is in there - time will tell. It's possible they have already swarmed of course.
I've a vague memory of doing this with a single brood decades ago, but never with a double brood+!

Well I split them as planned the day after.
Today I went in and the Q+ half had produced more queen cells!!
Very full hive & I had to sieve them through a QE to find the queen.
I've now nuced (and marked) the queen and reduced the QCs to one, and reduced the Q- half to one cell too.

 

[hemo]

Can you explain your thinking behind this? Why won’t they still try to swarm with the clipped queen and failing that with the virgin when she emerges?

It is possible SS may be occurring but imv a month too early still, one needs to put in place a course of action if not wanting to lose a swarm, clipping gives that option and time.

Unless one can mind read the bees they usually have other ideas, clipping gives one time and saves losing a whole lot of bees maybe 30 - 50%. Delayed swarming does occur depending on conditions in/out of the hive.
A lost Q when swarmed and return of said bees can stop the warming urge if only a single VQ is left to emerge. . A suitable waterproof box up turned near the colony in the hope they find their way in to it or aclipped Q swram may crawl back to cluster under the parent hive.

One needs to be certain under the any swarming urge or QC production that only one QC is chosen and marked , if resdient Q remains in situ then one may have to go on in every three or four days to check the chosen Qc is still viable and to remove any other produced cells.

The two in the above pic #40,435 doesn't denote SS , they are just a pair op QC on the frame face .
Nothing to preventing an attempted swarm with the resident Q and one of the VQ's , the swarm would succeed with or without a clipped olde Q.

 

[hemo]

Been away for two weeks, thought I'd prepared for all eventualities . Inspected today two of the hives on double brood. Saw the queen in one, this year's queen. Loads of charged cells. The other no queen but eggs and loads of charged cells. Took down all the cells, just debating what to do!! Supercedure or swarmView attachment 40524?

Both colonies loads of QC's , what ever one does one can't just leave them to it.
Problem is if all sealed one has no idea which are viable or age.

 

[Nannysbees]

Both colonies loads of QC's , what ever one does one can't just leave them to it.
Problem is if all sealed one has no idea which are viable or age.

Going to do a split with the queen and requeen those that are left

 

[Gordon.Grant]

Can you explain your thinking behind this? Why won’t they still try to swarm with the clipped queen and failing that with the virgin when she emerges?

They will still try to swarm but if the queen is clipped you won't lose the bees. They will return to the hive when they realise the queen is missing. Likely she will be on the ground outside the hive or crawled back under the floor with a small cluster of bees. If you leave a single cell that'll emerge and you won't get multiple casts

 

[Do224]

They will still try to swarm but if the queen is clipped you won't lose the bees. They will return to the hive when they realise the queen is missing. Likely she will be on the ground outside the hive or crawled back under the floor with a small cluster of bees. If you leave a single cell that'll emerge and you won't get multiple casts

I’m still confused. Why do you choose to clip the queen instead of nucing her in this scenario?

 

[hemo]

OK. Queen dispatched. New VQ introduced immediately in cage. Tab removed 24 hours later. Had a look 6 days later to check she had been released from the cage. All ok but there were about 20 queen cells over 2 frames. Does this mean they have killed the VQ or is it normal for this to happen and the QC get torn down. What do you suggest please?

Intro queen bumped off , one would say twenty is a bit excessive.
I find more then six too many so then I replace the Q, one to four is perfect.

 

[hemo]

I will only nuc A/S a colony if a Q she has exceptional traits.
Often it is simply not wanting more colonies.

 

[Do224]

I will only nuc A/S a colony if a Q she has exceptional traits.
Often it is simply not wanting more colonies.

Ah ok, I thought nucing the queen was necessary to prevent losing a swarm. So it’s ok to reduce to one queen cell and leave the existing queen in the hive if she’s clipped? The new queen will take over when she emerges and the old queen will be killed? Thus creating an enforced supercedure…

I have to say I’m still skeptical as I’ve not heard mention of this technique before…

 

[rolande]

I have to say I’m still skeptical as I’ve not heard mention of this technique before…

Sceptical, you're not the only one!

A photo of a swarm with a clipped queen.all of those bees would be gone with a virgin the following week if something wasn't done:



Edit: @Garry R , brood bodies made from phenolic ply, should probably have been painted.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Interesting two days spent with my RBI.
6 sites and 66 colonies on Monday, 11 sites and 38 colonies on Tuesday.
202 colonies? Where did they spring from?????????

 

[Sutty]

Sceptical, you're not the only one!

Absolutely!
Nothing to stop them making a few more queen cells then swarming when the older QC emerged.

 

[SWHives]

Hi All, anyone has experience taking off honey using escape board when there is no queen/brood present in the colony (there might be a virgin queen present)? Will the bees move down to the BBB and added box? The upper BB is full of honey probably all capped now and I want to move it above the EB to get the bees down. Of course will replace with another bbox so there is enough space. Thanks

 

[hemo]

Ah ok, I thought nucing the queen was necessary to prevent losing a swarm. So it’s ok to reduce to one queen cell and leave the existing queen in the hive if she’s clipped? The new queen will take over when she emerges and the old queen will be killed? Thus creating an enforced supercedure…

I have to say I’m still skeptical as I’ve not heard mention of this technique before…

A swarm with a clipped queen will occur, one may lose the Q on the ground or may find a clump/swarm of bees with her. Sometimes they may cluster under the floor.
All it does is buy you time in not losing a colony , more bees/foragers equals greater honey yield. On stil has to be proactive with QC's until larvae are no longer viable.
I find if they swarm then it is natural and no games with EQC's, if I forcibly remove Q then panic tends to set in and EQC's appear all over.