What did you do in the Apiary today?

[Hivemaker.]

I cut 1200 wedges for wedge top bar frames today

With the type of top bars I make the wedge is already a part of the top bar, just cut through enough to leave it lightly attached to the top bar, until ready for fitting foundation, when it is easily removed.

 

[Fusion_power]

I too cut wedges when I make top bars, but I also have a lot of old frames that are still serviceable. I make extra wedges from leftover scrap so I can replace them in the old frames. In the past, I used a standard 1/8 inch kerf blade to cut the wedges. This left a strip of wood too small to serve as a wedge. I purchased a 42 mil blade this spring so the top bar will also produce a wedge when cut. Blades are commonly available in 63 mil and 95 mil. Smaller than 63 mil is harder to find.

Here are some of the pros and cons:
1. Yield of small parts such as for frames is about 9% higher because less of the wood is turned into sawdust.
2. A micro-kerf blade takes much less horsepower. I can cut as easily with 1 hp using a micro-kerf as with a 125 mil blade using 3 hp.
3. A micro-kerf blade is more likely to pick up small pieces of scrap wood and throw them at the operator. It is important to keep the top of a tablesaw clean!
4. A micro-kerf blade has to be kept clean of rosin so regular washing with a solvent is required.
5. Some wood has so much rosin that a micro-kerf blade won't cut it without binding and/or burning the cut edge of the wood. These woods must be cut with a wider blade.

 

[Hivemaker.]

In the past, I used a standard 1/8 inch kerf blade to cut the wedges. This left a strip of wood too small to serve as a wedge. I purchased a 42 mil blade this spring so the top bar will also produce a wedge when cut.

The machine used here for cutting the top bar wedges has two blades running at the same time, one vertical and one horizontal, one is 3mm kerf the other is 1.5mm, this removes enough timber in the foundation channel and the other blade obviously doesn't remove too much from the wedge, the bars are fed through by power feed, or by hand if need be.
For safety the machine is all shielded and more or less idiot proof.

 

[REDWOOD]

What wood type is used to make frames


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[Hivemaker.]

What wood type is used to make frames

Redwood.

Usually use pine, Scots or Corsican, Corsican is usually straighter grained, but also use Western Hemlock which has proven to be okay, and not liable to blue stain so much as pine.

 

[REDWOOD]

I often wondered what wood it was. The frames I buy from the uk always seemed to be made from a better quality/ harder wood than those from elsewhere


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[Fusion_power]

Most frames in the U.S. are soft white pine. I prefer spruce because it is closer grained and makes a stiffer final product.

I'm not running a dedicated machine for frame making. I get by with a pair of tablesaws and a radial arm saw. Converting mm to mils, you are running a 120 mil and a 60 mil blade. The 42 mil blade gives a higher yield of usable parts when milling the blanks for frame parts. If you cut a lot of frames, a micro-kerf blade will pay for itself in short order.

 

[Finman]

.
The most important is that frame sticks do not have knots, because you must abandon such stick.

About tree species: Vertical sticks must be so hard (pine) that wire does not soak into wood. Using Eyelets make no sense. Horizontal sticks can be spruce but spruce has mostly much small black knots.

If the wire soaks into wood with pine, select a thicker wire.

Knotless board comes from surface of a big tree trunk.

A stick makes a curve inside the hive at the point of knot.

Our frames are made in Estonia.
100 frames is £45
When I last got sticks for 1500 frames, I have met couple of knots. The reason is hard quality control by reseller. The quality of those 1500 frames was huge.
.
There was time 5 y ago, when frames of 20% rubbish was normal and price extra low.
.

 

[Fusion_power]

finman, one common trick used here is to put a staple into the wood in such a way that the wire pulls across the staple for support. I agree that wood for frames should be straight and mostly knot free. I allow only a few flaws in the wood for my frames, mostly for pin knots that are so small they don't compromise the wood strength.

 

[Finman]

finman, one common trick used here is to put a staple into the wood in such a way that the wire pulls across the staple for support. I agree that wood for frames should be straight and mostly knot free. I allow only a few flaws in the wood for my frames, mostly for pin knots that are so small they don't compromise the wood strength.

We have so much good timber, that we do not need to play with extra tricks.

Small knots mean spruce and hearth wood. You can select knotless raw material. Could you?

Price of good wood material is not much when you make the whole frame work.

I do not support wire with stables. How does it happen? At least extra work, when you have wrong raw material.

As I said, select such wood and wire, that you do not need support tricks.
.

 

[SDM]

Most frames in the U.S. are soft white pine. I prefer spruce because it is closer grained and makes a stiffer final product.

I'm not running a dedicated machine for frame making. I get by with a pair of tablesaws and a radial arm saw. Converting mm to mils, you are running a 120 mil and a 60 mil blade. The 42 mil blade gives a higher yield of usable parts when milling the blanks for frame parts. If you cut a lot of frames, a micro-kerf blade will pay for itself in short order.

I can't be arsed to work it out ,but how many cuts would the 18mils saving take to pay for even 1 frame, never mind the £50 cost of a decent blade ?
Against that you've got overheating, extra cleaning, shorter blade life span and since he already owns a machine powerful enough to run the blade he does, there's no saving there either.
You shouldn't believe everything you read in the advertising.

 

[user 6228]

I can't be arsed to work it out ,but how many cuts would the 18mils saving take to pay for even 1 frame, never mind the £50 cost of a decent blade ?
Against that you've got overheating, extra cleaning, shorter blade life span and since he already owns a machine powerful enough to run the blade he does, there's no saving there either.
You shouldn't believe everything you read in the advertising.

if the cut part is 5mm wide then its 11 cuts gives you a new part.

 

[Finman]

if the cut part is 5mm wide then its 11 cuts gives you a new part.

Every time you get a waste piece because the board width is what it is.

It seems that life is mere waste.

Biggest thing would be that Fusion moves his hives to good pastures and get honey 300 kg/hive. On average.. But his colonies should have 8 deep boxes that bees can store the nectar.
.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I gave up using wedge top bar frames years ago. Grooved top bars work better for me. Glue the foundation in with hot wax. No wedges, no nails, no broken wedges when renewing the comb. Remove the old comb, dip the top bar in hot water, clean out the groove with the groove cleaning tool. Easy.

 

[B+.]

I gave up using wedge top bar frames years ago. Grooved top bars work better for me.

Interestingly, that is how foundation is attached in mating hives. Is it just for "historic reasons" that we attach the foundations with a thin strip of wood? Are there any pros/cons?
Another thing I always found odd was the vertical zig-zag foundation wiring. I don't know about other styles but the Thornes langstroth wiring is neve quite enough to pin it in properly (so I use an electric nailgun and don't even try). There is also the horizontal wiring threaded through the sidebars or vertical wiring which I've seen on American foundation (which doesn't seem to offer enough support to me). Does anyone know why, or, is it just an attempt to ensure customer loyalty?

 

[Goran]

Fffreeezing, north wind blows through bones.. Bees " drink tea" I presume.. Real day temp 2-5C.

 

[Finman]

Fffreeezing, north wind blows through bones.. Bees " drink tea" I presume.. Real day temp 2-5C.

Two days ago we had +5C and tomorrow -12C.

We lifted a boat from sea in Saturday. A week earlier the harbour had 15 cm ice cover and boat frozen in the ices.
.

 

[yeogi75]

I don't even use them any more, just make up frames put in the wires into new frames and lay wax on wire heat job done, steam out next year put new wax on heat and ready, the wire is there every year , either buy new foundation or make your own

 

[Fusion_power]

From a knot free 1 X 12 X 16, I was getting 110 top bars. With a micro kerf blade, I get 120, an increase of 9%. The math works out the same for any frame parts, I get 8 to 9 percent more of whatever I am cutting. Just changing from a 90 mil blade to a 60 will improve yield enough to justify the change. 6.5 inch 60 mil Freud blades can be purchased for $20. Also, please note that it was not an 18 mil difference. I was using a 90 mil blade and went down to a 42 mil which means 48 mils gain on each piece cut.

My blades of choice now are Freud LU86R010 for general purpose cutting, Freud Diablo D0641X thin kerf for cutting down 2 X 6 into smaller stock, and the 42 mil micro kerf blade for machining frame parts. I have a Freud 206 dado, a Freud 24 tooth ripping blade, a Freud 60 tooth finish blade, and a Freud 80 tooth plywood and melamine blade. I use them, but not nearly as much as the first three. Are there better blades? I could point out a few that are as good as or perhaps even a tad better under some conditions, but for my purposes these blades do all I ask of them.

You are correct that the 42 mil blade will get dull sooner and has a shorter lifespan. It can be re-tipped up to 10 times and sharpened up to 10 times on each set of tips. Given that I have used it to cut 1000 frames so far and no sign it is getting dull yet, it will probably last longer than I will.

I am cleaning up old equipment and preparing swarm traps for next spring. Today was clean up the greenhouse day so I can start seed in January. Tomorrow I plan on assembling some more square deep boxes and perhaps painting some of them. The bees are enduring a rainy windy cool night. They have enough honey to make it to spring.

 

[Robbo8916]

Yesterday ended up agreeing to rehome an unwanted colony after a bitter break up, now need to figure out how to move them to the farm!

Popped into my apiary on the way home to see hordes of bees flying really strongly which was slightly disheartening as they will have been using up stores they are unable to replace. Loads of orange pollen was coming in but not a clue where from. Sadly the nuc were losing most of theirs as I had set them to Queen Includer mode and as I didn't have my suit with me I couldn't do anything about it.