What did you do in the Apiary today?

[Erichalfbee]

Think he’s concluding trickling has a longer term effect (days) than vaping (doesn’t last long he mentioned). Wondering if that’s why it sometimes takes more than the 4 or 5 vapes most people do…

Interesting.
How often can you trickle?
Even if vaping persists for only two days you get all the mites parasitic on adult bees.
How many days between a mite emerging from a cell and her infesting a new one?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How often can you trickle?

only once a year is recommended as, being suspended in syrup, the bees eat the suyrup thus ingest the OA, not really an issue with the workers as they only last a few weeks anyway, but a queen could be exposed to it multiple times over multiple years thus her life could be substantially curtailed.

Even if vaping persists for only two days you get all the mites parasitic on adult bees

and yet it's been said the OA can hang around on the bees for three or four days

How many days between a mite emerging from a cell and her infesting a new one

IIRC they have to remain phoretic for three, maybe four days before entering an open cell

 

[elainemary]

Interesting.
How often can you trickle?
Even if vaping persists for only two days you get all the mites parasitic on adult bees.
How many days between a mite emerging from a cell and her infesting a new one?

Yes that’s what I thought…
Randy is experimenting with some high dosages of OA in ‘trickle’ form, far more than we would consider using. He stated his results were showing the OA was lasting for 5 days on the bees whereas he stated the sublimation lasting period was only transient. I always thought from the Lasi work that the trickle method damaged brood. We’ll have to watch this space.
I must say I liked his very straight style…”I don’t do opinion, only facts”.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well from my experience mites continue to drop for 4 days. I vape every 5. Only the odd colony needs more than 4 vapes so it seems to work for me.
How much Oxalic was he using by the way?

 

[elainemary]

Well from my experience mites continue to drop for 4 days. I vape every 5. Only the odd colony needs more than 4 vapes so it seems to work for me.
How much Oxalic was he using by the way?

Around 15g - dumps the cup full straight onto the bees in sugar solution, no messing about trickling, he wanted to find out how much the bees can take in one hit and the effects. I didn’t make notes, so that’s from memory. I know I thought wow that’s a lot, our dosage is 2.3g isn’t it? His trials are still ongoing he said but looking encouraging.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

he stated the sublimation lasting period was only transient.

that's definitely an opinion not a fact, more than one study (especially the LASI one) has found it stays on the bees and on hive surfaces for multiple days. It makes me feel as if he doesn't quite understand the mechanics of sublimation but rather the believes that, like steam, the 'vapour' just drifts out of the hive within minutes of sublimation.
But the BBKA types must be lapping it up with their distrust of sublimation which the probably see as some kind of heretical modern thinking

 

[Gilberdyke John]

that's definitely an opinion not a fact, more than one study (especially the LASI one) has found it stays on the bees and on hive surfaces for multiple days. It makes me feel as if he doesn't quite understand the mechanics of sublimation but rather the believes that, like steam, the 'vapour' just drifts out of the hive within minutes of sublimation.
But the BBKA types must be lapping it up with their distrust of sublimation which the probably see as some kind of heretical modern thinking

OA deposits on top of the frames remain visible for a few days after sublimation. I suggest this confirms transient is a word needing better definition in connection with varroa treatment.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Around 15g - dumps the cup full straight onto the bees in sugar solution, no messing about trickling, he wanted to find out how much the bees can take in one hit and the effects. I didn’t make notes, so that’s from memory. I know I thought wow that’s a lot, our dosage is 2.3g isn’t it? His trials are still ongoing he said but looking encouraging.

I use 3 sublimated
The USA legal dose is 1g which does nothing

 

[Newbeeneil]

I use 3 sublimated
The USA legal dose is 1g which does nothing

Exactly what Randy said

 

[Newbeeneil]

OA deposits on top of the frames remain visible for a few days after sublimation. I suggest this confirms transient is a word needing better definition in connection with varroa treatment.

Maybe the definition of transient is transient?

 

[elainemary]

that's definitely an opinion not a fact, more than one study (especially the LASI one) has found it stays on the bees and on hive surfaces for multiple days. It makes me feel as if he doesn't quite understand the mechanics of sublimation but rather the believes that, like steam, the 'vapour' just drifts out of the hive within minutes of sublimation.
But the BBKA types must be lapping it up with their distrust of sublimation which the probably see as some kind of heretical modern thinking

I must say I was surprised re his comment on sublimation as I’ve read the phD of the student who did the work for Lasi and pretty convincing stuff.
Equally Randy is a scientist and has the capability with his set up to do much bigger trials than our scientists do.
He had quite a debate, even a sparring, with Robert Pickard at the CABK evening. I’m impressed by both scientists and it was done in good humour and respectful. Best part of the honey show I felt.

 

[elainemary]

I use 3 sublimated
The USA legal dose is 1g which does nothing

Yes 1g is v low. Quite the opposite of what we read about the U.S. with their liberal use of antibiotics for instance for the foulbroods.
Randy’s work is in progress and he’d applied 15g just before he left for the show. Be interesting to read more about it on his website, in time.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes 1g is v low. Quite the opposite of what we read about the U.S. with their liberal use of antibiotics for instance for the foulbroods.
Randy’s work is in progress and he’d applied 15g just before he left for the show. Be interesting to read more about it on his website, in time.

If the bees survive how long would control last.? Any longer than using the usual amount? How many times can you douse a queen in Oxalic in syrup?
He seems to have a plethora of experiments going. Some work in some places and some not at all. So it’s pot luck really. Try one recommendation after another till you hit one that works for you.
He must dream about them. It’s verging on mania I think.

 

[elainemary]

If the bees survive how long would control last.? Any longer than using the usual amount? How many times can you douse a queen in Oxalic in syrup?
He seems to have a plethora of experiments going. Some work in some places and some not at all. So it’s pot luck really. Try one recommendation after another till you hit one that works for you.
He must dream about them. It’s verging on mania I think.

Yes, he said he’s investigating all of those questions. He said no impact on queen to date. Bees impacted initially (think first day or so) but no effects after this. He’s continuing his trials and plans to do more. Randy Oliver seemed to be doing it in a rigorous planned scientific way; I listened.
We’ll have to wait til he starts publishing results on his website. His bigger talk on varroa (which I didn’t attend) should be out soon via the Honeyshow website, so maybe there will be the opportunity to hear it ‘in person’ soon.

 

[rolande]

He said no impact on queen to date.

I suppose even this may change depending if you're requeening on an annual/biannual program or keeping queens till they can't go on any longer. I think he's in the former category but may be misremembering.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m not convinced that’s it worth the huge effort. So many beekeepers round the world have found their way already.

 

[North End Bees]

He had quite a debate, even a sparring, with Robert Pickard at the CABK evening. I’m impressed by both scientists and it was done in good humour and respectful. Best part of the honey show I felt.

Two scientists I also admire greatly. Do you know if this talk was one of the ones recorded for the NHS YouTube?

 

[The Poot]

Presumably then, if the Americans increased the vaped dose to 3g or so, he wouldn’t need to investigate whether the bees could survive a dumping of 15g in syrup, as vaping would then be seen as effective, no matter how “transient”.
It seems an odd thing to invest his time in, given the American “oxalic hesitancy” and the proven use of it here.

 

[AdrianH]

the title says it all

I applied some fondant to one of my colonies

I also topped up the fondant supplies. 1.2kg per colony to date.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I also topped up the fondant supplies. 1.2kg per colony to date.

Ah bless tonybloke…… RIP