What did you do in the Apiary today?

[DaveG23]

Sun was out so managed to do some beekeeping. Was planning to make up a nuc for a friend from a demaree hive. But had to deal with one of my own swarms at another apiary instead.

So my friend got a prime swarm instead, also got a queen cell that is ready to emerge for his existing hive which has been queenless for a while.

On inspecting the hive that swarmed we ended up disturbing then bees guarding the queen's, so lots of virgins now running around that hive, all other QCs were knocked down. The hive was strong enough for me to make a nuc with a virgin queen, and I took a QC to a nuc I have that seems to be queenless, she emerged as I was putting the cell in to the nuc.

Got a call later to say that the swarm was on the outside of the nuc, we had left the nuc on top of a bait hive, and hadn't realised there was a hole under the nuc that gave access to the bait hive so lots of shaking later and a dismantled bait hive, fingers crossed they settle in the nuc.

Lots of fun, enjoy these days where you get to see a lot

 

[pargyle]

Yesterday I started a Nuc off with frames of bees from three strong colonies and added a lovely black Welsh queen in her travelling cage. Today I let her out .. the cage was covered in bees but not acting agressively .. the attendants came out first and were not set upon by the resident bees and the queen came out last .. wandered across the top of the frame accompanied by a little entourage and then she disappeared off down into the hive. I'm hoping for some lovely black welsh bees in a few weeks .. Cyffrous iawn !

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve never had the nerve to let a queen out the next day.
I’ve always made my nucs from one colony
Do you think mixing three lots of bees up first makes a difference in how they greet their new queen?

 

[pargyle]

I’ve never had the nerve to let a queen out the next day.
I’ve always made my nucs from one colony
Do you think mixing three lots of bees up first makes a difference in how they greet their new queen?

I don't know .. I made the Nuc up from three colonies in order to not weaken any one of them and from two colonies they are prone to fighting ... three seem to accept each other amicably.

I really dithered about keeping her caged for a few days - or just running her into the new colony .. I hadn't decided even when I put her into the Nuc in the cage ... I was really dithering. I was going to leave her for a few days and then a mutual friend came to my aid .. and confirmed it would, probably, be safer to keep her caged so I relaxed ... and then he changed his mind... and I let her go !

We shall see ... I'll let you know in a couple of weeks or so !

 

[Swarm]

Did any of those combs contain any young brood at all, Phil? I had what I thought was a successful intro with new queen happily laying and walking the comb only to find her on the floor a week later when I checked how she was doing. The box was laid up with BIAS, so either I accidentally killed her or something happened to her a day or two before.
Possibly less of a concern as you've sourced your bees and brood from three colonies, perhaps confusion will help.

Nice choice.

 

[pargyle]

Did any of those combs contain any young brood at all, Phil? I had what I thought was a successful intro with new queen happily laying and walking the comb only to find her on the floor a week later when I checked how she was doing. The box was laid up with BIAS, so either I accidentally killed her or something happened to her a day or two before.
Possibly less of a concern as you've sourced your bees and brood from three colonies, perhaps confusion will help.

Nice choice.

Yes .. all three combs I took from the other colonies had a mix of capped brood and larvae.. I figured if I took the bees on these three frames the odds were that they would anchor to the nuc rather than absconding back to the original hives (all of which are only a few feet away).

I made up the Nuc at about midday on Friday - it was hot and sunny and lots of flying bees so, again, high chance that the bees I transferred were not yet foragers. I released the queen around 4pm yesterday so they had a little over 24 hours to get used to her and for her pheremones to spread through the hive.

When I freed her there were plenty of bees left in the Nuc so I reckon my assumption about the bees I transferred was correct, I have a clear crownboard on the Nuc and it is set in a Paynes nuc super - there's a covered hole in the crown board and whilst I have given them a full frame of stores my only concern, at present, is whether they will have enough stores in about a week when the new brood is emerging and hopefully the new queen is laying.

I'm prepared for this as I have a rapid feeder that will fit in the nuc and some invert in stock in case they need a bit of help. They only have five combs in there and the rest of the space is filled with a fat celotex dummy board but I have drawn frames that will go in there once they need them.

The only other decision I will have in time is whether to transfer them to a full 14 x 12 or leave them in my Paynes modified 8 frame nuc .. I have a spare super for this Nuc and I was thinking about putting that on towards the back end so they have more space to put some stores and perhaps overwinter them in the 8 frame ?

I love a bit of an experiment ... and the prospect of some different (but still UK) bees.

 

[Swarm]

Make sure to check the combs for cells, just in case

 

[Curly green finger's]

Very interesting Phil to read how you made the nuc, I've not tried making a nuc yet from more than one colony. I know it can be very successful without depleting the colonys of bee's. I've observed a friend making two nucs from three colonys and introducing the Queen in a cage. you said the Queen is an Irish black.. Jonathan Gettys queen's??
Does she look the part?? Im asking because I want to put an order for next year.


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[madasafish]

The advantage of taking combs from three colonies is you can take nurse bees from each, shake them into a plastic box, spray gently with water and dump into nuc with a caged Queen - or an uncaged virgin and they will bond as a colony.. especially if you lock them in overnight. (See making up mini nucs for Q mating)

 

[Curly green finger's]

The advantage of taking combs from three colonies is you can take nurse bees from each, shake them into a plastic box, spray gently with water and dump into nuc with a caged Queen - or an uncaged virgin and they will bond as a colony.. especially if you lock them in overnight. (See making up mini nucs for Q mating)

We've had quite good success putting virgin queen's in apidea this year madasafish 6 of my virgin queen's were used and all mated successfully..

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[beeno]

We've had quite good success putting virgin queen's in apidea this year madasafish 6 of my virgin queen's were used and all mated successfully..

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Is that six out six or?

 

[pargyle]

you said the Queen is an Irish black.. Jonathan Gettys queen's??
Does she look the part?? Im asking because I want to put an order for next year.

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No .. she's Welsh and black .. Cardigan Bay Honey .. she's a super looking queen. However, I've had a couple of queens from Jon Getty in the past and they are also very good queens .. one of them is still going in her third season and another hive is a supercedure from her progeny. Good bees.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Is that six out six or?

Yes beeno I raised them in my incubator, we also added two day old capped queen cells to queenless nucs and charged apidea which were not so successful, which surprised me and my friend.. You would of thought they would of been more successful using capped qcs.

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[pargyle]

Make sure to check the combs for cells, just in case

Well ... if they do they do ...it's always a risk. I think the larvae in there were mostly too old for them to consider making queen cells and if they do and the new queen survives the introduction her pheremones, by then, should stop them in their tracks. Of course, they may decide to supercede her once she starts laying - not unheard of. If that happens I will probably extract her from the hive and let them get on with it. Make up another nuc from a split and put her in there ....

It's all a bit of a gamble at times isn't it ? Putting a variety of plans (and kit !) in place for the multiplicity of potential outcomes is is not something I am good at .. inevitably I end up fire fighting when they catch me out !

 

[Curly green finger's]

No .. she's Welsh and black .. Cardigan Bay Honey .. she's a super looking queen. However, I've had a couple of queens from Jon Getty in the past and they are also very good queens .. one of them is still going in her third season and another hive is a supercedure from her progeny. Good bees.

Thanks Phil, ceri queen's are very good and the daughters look much the same I bought a nuc from ceri two seasons ago and have just recently bought a queen from him she is doing really well.
I look forward to trying Jonathan's queen's next season I plan to give my friend some of them to allso breed from, he lives in the Clun area and has a osolated Mating site in the Clun Hills.

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[The Poot in Somerset]

That’s really interesting Mr. P.
I hope it all works out well for you and will be interested in updates if you can.
Does this mean you’ll have to start learning Welsh to be able to talk to them?
I smiled at your “dithering” - it’s something I excel at with my lot

 

[Curly green finger's]

That’s really interesting Mr. P.

I hope it all works out well for you and will be interested in updates if you can.

Does this mean you’ll have to start learning Welsh to be able to talk to them?

I smiled at your “dithering” - it’s something I excel at with my lot

I would rather dither with my bee's than rush inspections some times you need to it does no harm.

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[pargyle]

The advantage of taking combs from three colonies is you can take nurse bees from each, shake them into a plastic box, spray gently with water and dump into nuc with a caged Queen - or an uncaged virgin and they will bond as a colony.. especially if you lock them in overnight. (See making up mini nucs for Q mating)

Yes .. I considered doing it that way but what I did in the end was put the open Nuc on a bench in front of the hives and just took a frame out of each of the donor colonies (opening one at a time) and popped them straight into the nuc with the roof off. When all three frames were in I shook a couple of super frames of bees from the last colony into the nuc as well. Put the frame of stores in, a drawn empty brood frame and the celotex dummy and the queen in her cage - put the roof on and moved them to the stand where they are going to be.

There was a lot of movement around the frames as I put them in but no fighting .. it certainly looked by the time I freed the queen next day as though they were all getting on - no signs of dead bees or general agression.

There's always more than one way of getting it right (or wrong !) in beekeeping.

 

[pargyle]

That’s really interesting Mr. P.
I hope it all works out well for you and will be interested in updates if you can.
Does this mean you’ll have to start learning Welsh to be able to talk to them?

I reckon so .. my Welsh in recent years has been a bit limited to Iechyd da over a pint of Brains .. my welsh speaking room mate at college, many, many years ago was so disparaging about my Welsh pronunciation I barely dared open my mouth to join in with his inevitable rendering of Sosban fach towards the end of the (also inevitable) Friday night pub crawl through the lesser know hostelries of Portsmouth in the late 1960's !

 

[madasafish]

Yes beeno I raised them in my incubator, we also added two day old capped queen cells to queenless nucs and charged apidea which were not so successful, which surprised me and my friend.. You would of thought they would of been more successful using capped qcs.

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Just capped QCs are prone to internal damage when moved.

Normal practise is to add QCs 2 days from emergence...the queen is then near fully formed and less susceptible to movement and temperature changes - likely in small nucs with few bees. (or so I have found not living in the balmy South