What did I do to trigger an attack?

[Nakedapiarist]

My normally placid hive went nuts on Saturday. They're in a desperate situation - plenty of bees, plenty of brood but no stores ( I've not even taken honey off them ), I wanted to check they've been taking down the syrup I've been feeding them for the last few weeks and apply varroa treatment whilst I was at it.

I smoked as usual - under the crown board ( I never smoke the entrance ), took off the first box and bees boiled out of the hive onto every surface, clustered on my hands, my veil - to the point of it getting hard to see. If I hadn't been so concerned about them I'd probably have gotten the message and closed up but I pressed on figuring I;m better off getting the job done whilst the hive is open.

Smoke had no effect in shifting them from surfaces, it was like one of those 70's movies that gave bees a bad name.
Three stings made it through the gloves, I counted another twelve stingers stuck in the leather and that's the first time I've actually smelt alarm pheromone.

Is it just that they were edgy because of the time of year and the low stores? I can't think of anything I'd done differently this time around but normally when I open that hive the bees carry on doing their waggle dances and tending cells as though nothing's happening. Weather was dry, sunny and not cold when I opened up, entrance block went on last week when some wasps started showing interest - I found one in the hive.

They are at least storing the syrup - not as much as I'd like yet but things are on the up. I'll be requeening in the spring as soon as I've raised a few queens.

 

[Davelin]

Why open them up at this time of year?

The simple way to see if they are taking syrup is to see if the feeder is empty!

What varroa treatment are you doing, bit late for thymol based ones, and anyway you shouldn't need to open the hive.
Although it is sunny the air is very cold so I wouldn't go poking around in the brood now.

 

[alldigging]

If you smoke and they have no honey to gorge on then they might be a bit cheesed off.

As Davelin said you could have seen if they'd taken the feed by looking at the feeder.

And just cos you've started doesn't mean you need to finish. In future if they boil like that and you have no reason to go in then leave them alone. There is no point beekeeping when they are beeing mean. Feed and hope they improve.

 

[Tom Bick]

If its the only time it's happened then no need to panic as it may just be a one off and overprotective of the syrup. Sounds like a very strong hive and if low on stores will need plenty of syrup.

Ps just as well as you don't inspect as your name would suggest

 

[enrico]

They have bad days. As soon as you realise they are like that spray with fabispray to get them back in and close them up. It took me a while to realise why mine were stroppy the other day. The squirrel was eating the hazel nuts and throwing all the shells on to the top of the hive. Constant banging was enough for them to have a go when I opened them up!
E

 

[Nakedapiarist]

Why open them up at this time of year? Basically because I'm learning and don't know any better!
It was last inspection of the year and as I hadn't seen the queen for a while that was another reason to check.


I'd love to know why I have one hive that's produced bucket loads of honey and this one just a few meters away that's in desperate need of feed. I know which one I'm rearing queens from...

 

[enrico]

I've been wondering that for thirty years......they will be different again next year!
E

 

[MuswellMetro]

I'd love to know why I have one hive that's produced bucket loads of honey and this one just a few meters away that's in desperate need of feed. I know which one I'm rearing queens from...

Have you checked them for Nosema ceranae

 

[thenovice]

I agree with above. check feeder and then HEFT the hive. they might be in defensive mode because they are being robbed blind by other hives...

 

[Nige.Coll]

Why open them up at this time of year? Basically because I'm learning and don't know any better!
It was last inspection of the year and as I hadn't seen the queen for a while that was another reason to check.


I'd love to know why I have one hive that's produced bucket loads of honey and this one just a few meters away that's in desperate need of feed. I know which one I'm rearing queens from...

probably because they are being robbed blind it would explain their temper too.

 

[alldigging]

Why open them up at this time of year?

One of the first things you should learn is to have a reason for going in to the hive.

Know why you're going in and what you're going to do. Opening hives cos you think you should isn't always a good idea.

There are often other ways of checking on things (presumably you'd removed the feeder to take off the crown board so had already seen how much or little feed they'd taken.)

And then going through a hive you've just been feeding probably means they have some really runny stores in there.

 

[Samurailord]

And just cos you've started doesn't mean you need to finish. In future if they boil like that and you have no reason to go in then leave them alone. There is no point beekeeping when they are beeing mean.

I learnt that lesson last year when as a relatively new beekeeper I didn't know any better.

Unknown to me, the hive was being robbed so my lovely, placid bees ended up putting me in A&E when they found the gaps on my wrists between gloves badly fitting suit.

I now have a new suit that fits, and I pay attention to the bees rather than pressing on regardless.

Andy

 

[Gribbee]

I agree with above. check feeder and then HEFT the hive. they might be in defensive mode because they are being robbed blind by other hives...

Or wasps.

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
As above plus it could be crowded bees if you have taken off supers or one brood box or I have noticed that mine get bad tempered if they are re-queening themselves.

 

[GlenJ]

You read the books and have an expectation! then you read people saying bees don't read books - then, about year 4, you get a bit of an idea about how these little critters work. It's a hell of a ride and I'm sure that if you make it that far you'll never give up!

 

[Galaxy55]

(probably because they are being robbed blind it would explain their temper too.)

Good call.

We had a hive at the clubs apiary a few weeks ago, when you opened them up they just poured out and went on a stinging spree. We were very popular that night. It was decided that we would leave them alone for a few weeks to see if they calmed down and they did. Very difficult to say what caused this behaviour.

 

[Nakedapiarist]

So I've been reading the books but I've not seen any of the 'signs of robbing' around my hive -

I spend a lot of time watching them, there are a few ( two or three ) wasps around but not in huge numbers - usually on the ground directly under the hive ( 50cm tall stand ). I found one inside in the process of being killed. As soon as those guys showed up I put in the entrance block.

I've not seen bees 'casing the joint', or any sign of fighting at the hive entrance or large numbers of dead bees near the entrance. The nearest hive is hive 2 ( inside the workshop ) their typical flight pattern takes them in the opposite direction to hive 1.

I'm entirely prepared to believed they've been robbed but worried that haven't seen it happen - could it be because I tend to be watching early morning or late afternoon?

They were doing ok until we got that wet spell of weather that lasted a month - then I found stores being uncapped and they never really built back up. The pattern of use was to start in the middle of the comb and radiate outwards.

They've still two supers on - never removed, my plan was to extract and replace the combs for their winter stores but of course....

They were a nuc installed in March.

 

[Galaxy55]

Just seems very strange that one hive is over flowing with the stores and the other has nothing. Any opportunity the bees get for a free meal they take. Hard to say for definite what the problem is. Could do with covering all bases and testing for disease.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

You'd better describe the hive from the ground up. Floor brood box QE super super? What are the chances they are queenless? That month was rough so that may be it but robbing is also a possibility; you may have some of their honey already...

 

[Nakedapiarist]

You'd better describe the hive from the ground up. Floor brood box QE super super? What are the chances they are queenless? That month was rough so that may be it but robbing is also a possibility; you may have some of their honey already...

National hive - buckfasts ( overwintered, british nuc )- mesh floor, one deep, QE then two supers. Queen confirmed present and laying - emerged this year. They did swarm earlier in the year, swarm recovered, old queen mysteriously vanished ( presumed dead ) four weeks later though the workers were still present so reunited - trouble with layer workers before uniting. Drones were booted out last week. QE now obviously off. Contact feeder present, bees using taking roughly 5kg 2:1 syrup per week.

Other hive - National - local bees ( also wintered nuc ) - indoors, two deeps, originally three supers, now one ( containing uncured honey that I might as well leave for the bees ). No QE as it turned out to be a total bee excluder for them. Ended up slightly honey bound during the blackberry flow.

Both hives currently bringing in pollen - yellow, white and orange - I have slides but I've only bothered to ID the balsam pollen so far - the slides are my winter project.

The plan next spring is to move the 'problem' hive to the allotment and requeen with the local bees.

Varroa counts have been low - 12 in 8 days on the problem hive, 1 in 8 days on the indoor. I'll do a bee squash and stick it under the microscope just to be sure.